Vulnerability, Community Support, and “Getting Back to Joy” with Jennice Chewlin, Founder of Chewlin Group

00:00.00

kitedart

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's session of the Now & Center podcast. I am here today with Jennice Chewlin. She is the founder of Chewlin Group, and I'm super excited for our conversation today. It's so funny. We were just kind of chatting as we were getting set up and we were already into a great juicy conversation. So I was like we've got to record so um and I'll call out I think I've had so many folks like this that I met through I think through Consultants for Good, and we've had several different conversations that we've been able to engage in a couple of different like small groups and things like that and then I was like we need to talk one on one because I really dig what you're into so um, with that, Jennice, welcome and thank you so much for being here.

00:42.60

Jennice Chewlin

Thank you Karen. Thank you for the invitation. I'm so excited to be here.

00:46.76

kitedart

Yeah, so let's jump into it and will you share with us about Shulin group the work you're doing and the difference that you're making for folks.

00:54.37

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, absolutely. So we at Chewlin Group, we work with companies who give a damn about the health and well-being of their workforce and we help support their team's emotional wellbeing by providing skill building workshops that will help them reduce stress, prevent burnout, and return to joy.

01:17.10

kitedart

Um I love that I think that's fabulous and 1 thing that I really appreciate about about that is that as as you were saying that it had me just sort of thinking about you know companies that I've been in and that sometimes they can be sort of.

01:34.62

kitedart

Reactionary right? and it's like people are putting out fires and people feel like they're on this hamster wheel and you know these kinds of things and I love just about even the way you frame that is how much it's about creating something that people want and this living into joy and happiness and well-being.

01:50.73

Jennice Chewlin

Me.

01:52.99

kitedart

As as like let's build what we really want to see so I think that's really great.

01:57.60

Jennice Chewlin

Exactly I mean that's how you know we're here to talk about my journey. But that's how this started you know is I'm creating what I needed when I start working full time and.

02:08.47

kitedart

A.

02:13.44

Jennice Chewlin

Was still the primary and still am the primary caretaker of my family and so I needed an environment that cared and gave a dam about my health and well-being you know, not just on paper because they you know they did offer. Unlimited pto and things like that which were beneficial but I I Um what I gained in that Criteria I lacked in like you know feeling supported listened to um, not just a top-down approach but like we care about how you're doing how you're feeling things like that. So.

02:50.60

kitedart

And.

02:51.67

Jennice Chewlin

I Think that's common for many entrepreneurs they start to create what is missing.

02:55.62

kitedart

Yeah I love that I think you're so right I think I see that so often I'll say for myself as well. Definitely in terms of my entry into this I I I love teaching for a lot of reasons but 1 of them was absolutely being burned out and exhausted and not taking care of myself and just.

03:03.41

Jennice Chewlin

Um.

03:12.61

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, yeah I mean so I you definitely burned out. You know both in my professional work and then even at home.

03:15.14

kitedart

You know, having enough. So I really appreciate that.

03:28.62

Jennice Chewlin

You know I just was given up on on everything on on everyone and just becoming resentful on the clock and then off the clock and you know things got to a point where just communication just started to deteriorate and you know when that happens. Things can go really sideways and so things did you know I Eventually they got to the point where things were so bad at where that I you know was let go and that was so so hard for me because whatever you know, internal critic I had. Was now just loud and in charge you know, really just blowing me up. You know you're not worthy. Um, now you're back to a stay at home Mom. Everyone's going to be so Disappointed. How embarrassing all of that hearts emotional stuff. So.

04:23.38

kitedart

Yeah.

04:25.94

Jennice Chewlin

You know I share that because you know a it sucks you know and I don't want to do it privately I did already and it it wasn't good for me I think it's important to share if you can share your story to let others know that it's. You know, okay and that maybe they lost their jobs too and this is the second time that it happened to me it happened when I had my first job out of college and things were great and it was at a national nonprofit so I felt really great with my little public health. Um, degree you know getting this this job in tobacco education and then you know the recession hit and they were just cutting jobs left and right and then that was horrendous too. So I had these two back to back. You know.

05:07.25

kitedart

A.

05:20.17

Jennice Chewlin

Events in my life that just really kind of pulled the rug underneath me and made it really really hard to get back up. You know and acknowledge that hey you know things aren't great. You weren't happy there anyways, yes, you were collecting a good paycheck. And you know I'm proud that I and reentered the workforce which is something that I always wanted to do for the five years that I was caretaking and um, it's just that I I just knew it wasn't the right spot for me I knew that. And like so many people you know you know when you're not in a good spot or you're doing something you shouldn't be doing and it just took this to like really slap me in the face to say all right? You're gonna you're gonna get your second chance here here you go you know.

05:58.38

kitedart

And.

06:14.10

kitedart

Down.

06:15.72

Jennice Chewlin

And I I share with what my friend told me the same friend who said Denise you should open your own business that that same friend was the same friend that was there for me when I called her crying and said hey I lost my job. They let me go. And she said janise I'm so sorry gosh this is terrible but I also am going to say that the universe gave you a promotion. You wouldn't give yourself. You know how you know you weren't happy there and you know it you know and she'd let you know she had a soft landing for me, but it was like.

06:43.16

kitedart

Yeah.

06:52.39

Jennice Chewlin

Damn you're right? You're so right and I also had great support family. You know friends and family that helped me through that tough time and um, it's what woke me up to unveil what I really wanted Chewlin Group to be about. You know because I started in 2016 when my friend died say and I said you should open your own business I said okay, you're right I have you know my public health background I've been doing program management for years. You're right I can do this and then I just started like. Just throwing a really wide. Ah wide um cast net about my services I was like I can do it all anything in public health evaluation sure ah needs assessment. Yes, you know grant writing and you know seems. Story or original story I started off doing something I didn't really love yes I knew how to do it. But I don't think that I looking back I don't think I really brought me any um, happiness any joy to keep doing it so then. Fast forward when I lost my job a second time. That's when I was like you know what? this is my chance I'm going to spend time to look within and figure out what I want to do and Karen I mean I should explain that this was also in the middle of.

08:24.33

Jennice Chewlin

Um I had I I was newly pregnant with identical twins when this this so happened so I had lost my job then I found out I was newly pregnant with identical twins and then the pandemic hit. So I mentioned all that trifecta.

08:37.22

kitedart

Now.

08:42.53

Jennice Chewlin

To set up like the stage of how did I get this time to like look within you know where was that slap in the face. It was that you know things were happening on the outside in my in the world that were making me angry and then things inside of me were also saying. What can you do? What do you want to do and that's kind of like how this spark ignited this new fire starting in you know, 20192020 to like push me forward.

09:16.20

kitedart

Wow! Yeah, Thank you for sharing all of that. First of all I I Really appreciate your vulnerability and I think it's such a great example right? like that as you're talking about how do we create more wellness and happiness and joy for ourselves in our lives that you can share something vulnerable. Trouble right? that because I think that that right in ah in a society where Perfectionism is valued so highly. Um I think that it's so easy for there to be that shame around things like that happening. And then people kind of go into hiding and keep them to themselves and it just makes people feel isolated and it reinforces feeling wrong and and you know there wasn't anything Wrong. It wasn't a good fit. It wasn't the right thing for you to do and to your point sometimes the universe is like hey wake up listen.

09:55.89

Jennice Chewlin

Who.

10:11.66

kitedart

Then like I feel that way right? like I feel like I I feel like there's so many times where it's like the universe is sort of like saying hey and and like I'm big on intuition but sometimes I don't listen until it gets really loud and.

10:25.39

Jennice Chewlin

Marjo.

10:26.46

kitedart

You know and those big things have to happen. So I think that that's really common but I really appreciate you. You sharing it? Um, secondly I'd love to also just call out what you're saying about you know, doing things that you. That you know you don't really like to do like Maybe you're good at it Maybe Ah, you learned about it in your degree but it didn't really bring you that joy and that you're also in your business working to bring up help other people find their joy and I think that. That synergistic relationship is like magic in a business right? and that one of the ways that we can make the biggest difference with our businesses is one is like yeah using our skills and talents and and passions. But secondly if we can help. Other people get the things that we want for ourselves right? that that in helping them get it. We get it for us and as we work to get it for Us. We're We're clearing the path for other people to get it and I just to me that is the Magic. Um. In a business when those 2 things come Together. So I Love that that that's what you're doing.

11:36.63

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, absolutely absolutely yes to everything You just said, you know it really reflects my journey.

11:48.10

kitedart

Yeah, and I think that um I Also think that when you were talking about when you started the business and you were like just saying yes to everything I think that's really common too and I and I think it's like.. It's It's one of those things where I don't I don't know if there's a quote unquote wrong path in business so to speak because sometimes we just have to do those things to get to where we are like. That's the journey like sometimes people can just even like for a career like sometimes people.

12:16.11

Jennice Chewlin

Um, yeah.

12:22.67

kitedart

We'll just know this is what I want to do and they go to school and then they get out and they do it and others of us. Yes, definitely me. It's like I don't know what I want to do so I need to kind of dive into something try it out and I get the information I need from the trying it out and.

12:39.67

Jennice Chewlin

Well yeah, Karen yes, but that second scenario of trying it out. It's just not I don't think it's not supported. You know to give room and space for that trying it out because of all of the fear that we have.

12:41.80

kitedart

That you too.

12:53.24

kitedart

Right? ah.

12:58.97

Jennice Chewlin

Both fear of our parents. You know saying how can you try that out or fear of our peers look at you wasting time trying it out and fear it from ourselves of I don't want to embarrass myself. You know so we just don't give ourself.

13:13.79

kitedart

Have.

13:18.29

Jennice Chewlin

Enough space or a soft landing to try it out and in my scenario it was there was nothing left like I was on the dirt path. There was no more soft landing It was time to pick myself up and. Because of everything that was happening I was I did finally give myself permission to bet on myself to work things out the way I wanted to because even like my eyes So I have my master's in Public Health and.

13:46.11

kitedart

Ah.

13:57.16

Jennice Chewlin

Even having that degree made me feel like I had to be in a certain sector of Public Health I I I kept I wasn't taking myself serious with my passion in regards to like. Prevention and social emotional well-being and because why because there were others doing it. There were others doing it and I just felt like again like I didn't give myself room space permission to now see that public health. Is such a nuanced industry that there are so many areas that you know there this is a path that is part of public Health and so I say that for all to shout out to all my the recent public Health folks. Who may also feel that way that Public Health has to look a certain way.

14:55.69

kitedart

Ah, yeah, yeah, I So appreciate that I I think that's so true and I feel like there's like as you were sharing that I feel like there's such a both and here right that it's like 1 I Always encourage people to listen to themselves and to bet on themselves and to trust in themselves and like go with your passions and go with what you're great at and go with what you really love and and really Follow. You know how you want to make a difference in the World. So It's like absolutely follow all those things and I Also think that if we meander along the way or we choose not to follow those things. It's also ok and to your point that whole.

15:39.30

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah.

15:45.32

kitedart

Idea of risk taking and trying things out and we don't have to have all the answers and we don't have to be good at everything We don't have to be perfect like that. All of that's true as well and and everybody's journey is is really different and some people can just. Follow that passion and and it works out and other people feel like they have to do they have to conform to some other ideal and it's like I don't want to encourage people to do that. But it's also okay if we do you know. Um, we learn and get there how we get there and um and totally to your point like I'm like always bet on yourself like but we're also not valued that way in our society right? like I think we all should be valued for who we uniquely are like. That's what makes us special. That's what's so great, but our society likes us to conform and fit in boxes and follow rules and be good people quote unquote like. So yeah, we're not set up.

16:48.66

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, right? Yeah I mean not at all I mean especially ah you know working Mothers I feel like I mean because I have experience from it. So I can say that for myself, you know I don't feel that way at all I don't feel that. We are supported valued and I collect evidence of that through my experience. You know when I I remember I asked the the the work I was the the job I had I had Asked. You know when I was negotiating.

17:06.84

kitedart

Man.

17:23.60

Jennice Chewlin

My rates and everything I had asked. You know, do you provide Um, but parent leave. You know what is that? What's your set system set up as and they're like we don't we don't offer that. Okay, so there's my evidence too right? like that society company startups. Especially. I feel like um, this particular one may maybe just didn't value that and so what that said to me was hey working parent or person who thinks they may be pregnant in the next few years we don't value that and so I've just like I've collected evidence of. That truth I feel like I'm also collecting evidence that we can. We ah, we can learn skills that can help us break free of some of these limiting beliefs also because while I collect evidence of that truth I also know that well. My company will support working mothers. How this is how and you know I've laid that out in my business plan and how I've set things up to work for me a working mother. So I just throw that out there because that is where I'm at in my life I will often tell. People that I'm not at the intersection I'm at the crossfire of motherhood and career advancement I'm at the crossfires.

18:45.82

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so so good and it's so true right? like the way organizations businesses. You know institutions the way that that they're run absolutely reflect those values right? and people have the right to value what they want to value but like 1 problem is there's a lot of lip service and they're like oh we value this but then the actions don't support it and and I think to your point. Um.

19:08.30

Jennice Chewlin

Um.

19:20.60

kitedart

That integrity piece like is not okay, right? and it's like we need to make sure that when we're making decisions like you're saying inside of our business that we're doing it in alignment with those values and what we really care about and and it's awesome because that's. Like leaning into that is how we find the right people too right? like I'm sure that there are some other moms out there who were like oh my gosh I want to work with Janise I Want to be on that team because they feel not supported in in their.

19:49.89

Jennice Chewlin

Um.

19:54.26

kitedart

Journey of being a mom and trying to advance their professional, their professional um aspirations. So yeah I love that I Love that can I ask? Well you like we're you know we're talking and I think it's like like you said it's like.

20:06.75

Jennice Chewlin

Um, a home aha.

20:13.24

kitedart

The work that you're doing is so tied up with your journey and what you want to create in the world and your challenges. So I'd love to kind of I think we're already talking about the challenges that you've had in your business are there other challenges that you'd like to share in general. And or that may relate to any identities that you hold which again we've already talked about 1 identity as being a mom. So. But yeah, we just share more about some of those challenges.

20:34.69

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah for me what what sits top of mine is imposter. Syndrome. That's been a big challenge for me to work through in my Journey. Of having my business and what I mean by Imposter Syndrome is these false beliefs that I'm not good enough I'm not worthy to be where I am or the belief that there is enough already. So Why? me. And I've worked really hard on um, quieting the inner critic and acknowledging my inner critic saying. Okay, you're here. Let's work on these issues. Why do I feel that way and then it's like really facing. What I now realize is just it's systems that have created these false beliefs for me and when I acknowledge that as my as my evidence I say oh well then I don't have to believe that. Because I do feel I am worthy and I do feel that the skills that I have my talents are going to be welcomed and cheered on and so on you know and so for me imposter Syndrome just can't.

22:09.76

Jennice Chewlin

It just gets in the way of so many things for so many people and so for me that was one thing I had to dismantle for me to feel that I am secure and confident as I pursue my dreams of being this workforce. Educator to help people you know reduce their stress and avoid Burnout return to Joy. That's my tagline I Love it because it explains what I do and what I love to do.

22:44.27

kitedart

Yeah, that's great I'd love to pull out 2 things 1 is that when you said kind of in the beginning of that. How like oh there's already. There's already enough people doing this in the world like why me, it's like.

22:57.65

Jennice Chewlin

Mean.

23:00.22

kitedart

1 it's like no, there's not enough people doing this in the world because if there was then there wouldn't be so many of us who feel unfulfilled and stressed out and. Burnt out and exhausted and all of those things. So I and I personally feel like there can't possibly be enough people in this world doing this work because Intel it becomes the norm that we actually get to focus on health and well-being and joy. We're not there yet. We need more. You know.

23:28.30

Jennice Chewlin

No yeah.

23:31.85

kitedart

So yeah I'd I'd love to pull that out and then secondly I think that when you talked about the that it coming from systems I think that's so important and I feel like that was such an aha moment for me and my journey was that. Like at first I think some of my imposter syndrome like then got caught up in perfectionism and then it was like why do I feel this way la la la you know and I have to be perfect and and it just kind of kept reinforcing it but then in any time it showed up. It was like then I would judge myself and. But I think that realizing that it's a systemic issue and that the system has conditioned us to be this way that was really liberating for me because it allowed me to let go of the blame of myself for getting caught up in it right? and then like you said you can be like oh there.

24:25.49

Jennice Chewlin

Absolutely.

24:29.57

kitedart

That is again, you know and then you can get curious and be like thanks. But no, thanks.

24:32.84

Jennice Chewlin

Right? Exactly I mean I love that you said that word like it was liberating when you acknowledge that it was systems. Yes, and that's what what it feels like when I said confidence I mean liberating you help me with that. Thank you? Yeah, it's liberation. Yeah.

24:40.37

kitedart

Ah.

24:46.11

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well it's both I think they go together right? right? yeah.

24:52.58

Jennice Chewlin

That's true too. Yeah, and so and I like how you said it was within the you know within Imposter Sy It's the perfectionism that yes that totally got in my way all the time in the Beginning. Of just saying well it has to look like this or I'm not ready until X Y Z and then months would pass by and I never got things done launched etc. So. It's really checking that those negative beliefs that aren't true.

25:17.93

kitedart

Ever.

25:26.70

kitedart

Yeah.

25:27.44

Jennice Chewlin

You know and then collecting evidence for me is all about collecting evidence to um, realize that you know what I made that speaker sheet and oh I did have some grammar issues but I got it out anyways and I'm booking workshops even though it's like what you're saying you're yes and or. And both you know I can have grammatical issues on my speaker sheet and still book Workshops. So. It's a lot to work through I mean it's not I don't and I don't do it alone right? like I'm not I'm not I'm a piece of.

25:53.14

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

26:06.66

Jennice Chewlin

Someone's journey to support them to getting back to joy to having access to these tools that will help them feel less stress I'm a piece of their journey and I say that because I'm not doing this alone. There are there are people in my life that I've cultivated. That help me work through my imposter syndrome that helped me be accountable to what I say I want my goals and dreams to to look like and be like so it's really important to know to not. Do it alone because I was doing it alone and I didn't like it I felt isolated and so when I so started to surround myself with people who were supporting me and helping me through these parts of the imposter syndrome that can really paralyze me I started to so. See a sense of like you said confidence liberation where it helped me just put one foot in front of the nut the next you know it's just small little steps that I'm making and taking to build my business that I so much desire to. Keep growing and be a reliable source for workplaces both in my community nationally for folks to have this access to these tools.

27:31.76

kitedart

Yeah, it's such good stuff. Such good stuff and I you know I think it's it's right, It's another characteristic of art white supremacist culture right? is that individualism and that yeah if if. If the system can reinforce our conditioning to to stay separate to hide to you know, not connect with others um the system wins and none of us. Are going to um, like it's it's we we need that community Support. We need other people and we can do so much more when we have that support. And again to me. It's systemic and it's a systemic issue and it's like no don't don't you know when you're feeling alone and when you're feeling that Self-critic. Don't go hide which is what we instinctively want to do.

28:32.24

Jennice Chewlin

Ehu.

28:42.47

kitedart

Ghosty Community. Go find those people who are supports and we all need people right? Just like you said you're a piece of some people's journey and helping them with this but you need support too like me too I have coaches I have personal coaches I have business coaches I have leadership coaches I have.

28:50.17

Jennice Chewlin

Um, yeah, yeah.

29:00.77

kitedart

Community and people I have friends I family I have people who support me and and I just think that's such an important if people feel alone and isolated I think I think it's really important that we stay connected in community.

29:12.64

Jennice Chewlin

Absolutely I think it's not talked about enough in the entrepreneurial journey about the importance of community. So.

29:18.00

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, totally totally and the right community too. By the way I'll call out because I definitely got connected to community early on in my entrepreneurial journey but it wasn't quite the right community for me like.

29:26.47

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, yeah.

29:34.16

Jennice Chewlin

Um, yeah.

29:37.54

kitedart

Nothing against the folks I was connecting with but it just wasn't quite right? So we're back to alignment again right of like it has to be those people who really feel aligned and supportive in a way that works for you.

29:41.80

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, That's a great point I mean same here like you know yes I was networking early on. But I think I was you know likely networking with folks that weren't really in my right sphere right? to support me or to. And that's okay because they didn't do anything wrong I was trying to be someone I wasn't you know so no shade on them I'm just saying that you're right? You know it's the right community you gotta keep trying on shoes till it fits and so that's how I feel right about community and I'm in a new community now.

30:10.86

kitedart

M.

30:19.83

kitedart

Totally.

30:26.72

Jennice Chewlin

Um, having left my you know where we were living before and so that woof that is unveiling some new beliefs that I have stored away that you know about you know, networking with a new set of. People new companies and trying to find a new community for both my family and my business and that's definitely a journey but I will say that for me I've had a lot of experience with moving around a lot that I just know that I can no longer wait.

30:51.82

kitedart

Um, yeah.

31:03.32

Jennice Chewlin

For things to happen for me that I'm going to go and make the community that I want I'm going to go seek it out I'm gonna say hi I'm here this is what I want not only what I am doing but this is what I want to do with you where are my folks at you know like I am. Being very intentional with that desire to create this community because I'm in a new physical location but also balancing it out Kara with that that I don't burn myself out. You know there's this sense of urgency that I have to like.

31:36.26

kitedart

Um, yeah.

31:41.55

Jennice Chewlin

Get to know my community now and quickly not Miss Events etc. But I have to balance that with you know, my family's sense of feeling right in this new community seeking out places for us to have fun and be an etc so I Know. We can talk about that too like this feeling of so this urgency right to get it now slowing that down because that's where where I'm going to find you know the real magic.

32:10.53

kitedart

So true you are speaking my language today I say just like all those things I mean it's its sense of urgency I mean and you know what I can lean into sense of urgency like sometimes I need sense of urgency I need a deadline sometimes to get some things done even if.

32:17.36

Jennice Chewlin

A.

32:26.95

Jennice Chewlin

In June.

32:29.39

kitedart

The thing I want to do and I like to do sometimes I need a deadline to get it done and that's okay and when that sense of Urgency has us you know and and kind of also coupled with the perfectionism and the conforming right? It's like oh I. I Have to do this I should do this I need to fit in here I need to you know like it's just so easy to kind of force things to and I'm the kind of person where particularly when I'm unsure I need space I need to take a step back and give myself that space and it always. Reveals itself right? Um, and I'm also the kind of person who wants to be like yes yes yes I don't want to miss anything and that that doesn't and again sometimes that's what I need to do and it gives me the information sometimes I need to take that step back and how do we listen to ourselves and Know. Um.

33:08.50

Jennice Chewlin

Who yes.

33:26.51

kitedart

I mean I Always think to your point of like speaking out about your values and what you care about and what you're trying to create I'm like always do that because that's how you find those right people who are aligned and whether we say yes or we say no, it's like. Sometimes the yes yes yes is good and just to figure it out and sometimes we need to take that step back and not feel the Urgency enforce things.

33:47.88

Jennice Chewlin

Right? And and so that alone can sound so confusing right? like you know, right? It can It can be like go speedy if you want to but don't forget to slow down but then don't forget you know it could feel that way. But I think the the drive home here is.

33:53.79

kitedart

Yeah, to.

34:07.70

Jennice Chewlin

Tune in to yourself right? like okay, go fast. What is that telling you is your is your body saying yay! This is fun or is it saying like not 1 more thing. Please you know collect the data you're saying you know to you know it's all data. It's information to talk to us. But then it's also.

34:08.67

kitedart

Um, yeah, and.

34:27.00

Jennice Chewlin

What do we do with that data. What changes do we want to make from that data. So it can sound confusing but it it also always it makes sense. You know, just make sure you're using it. So for me I feel like I'm at a good pace in.

34:36.79

kitedart

Yeah.

34:46.97

Jennice Chewlin

And what I'm doing I have recognized when I am being a little too urgent because like guess what that's where my mistakes happened and so I was like okay so I intentionally say no a little more because I see what's happening. Um, and so.

35:03.16

kitedart

Ah.

35:06.25

Jennice Chewlin

I Just wanted to mention that because sometimes it can feel like even within my field a lot of the information can feel very contrived like oh so you're saying I just say thank you for a sunny day and I'm not going to have stress and it's It's not that. You know it's a little bit more.. It's really like what we're all talking about here is the journey you know tuning in and collecting that data figuring out what to do so that you can make improvements so that you can say you know it's gray out. But. I'm happy that later today I'm going to my indoor pool to get some splash time in you know things like that. So I Just think it's important to mention that.

35:52.15

kitedart

Yeah I love that I love that I think just when you said tune in right? like that's it's like yes and and we're all different and things are different at different times right? I you know I I really took some time for myself. Over this summer and and early fall to kind of check in I was kind of feeling a little like something's there and I wasn't sure and I kind of slowed down and took some space and I've gotten some new clarity and I'm ready to. Go right now I'm like jumping in feet first. So excited and so I do think that that to your point it it can seem confusing and it's because it's like it's not There's not a single answer It's like what do we need now and tuning in and and but we're not. Taught to tune in right? like how cool would it be if as youth we're taught to tune in and to listen to our bodies and listen to our intuition and not just keep going and work harder and produce more and conform. You know.

36:46.37

Jennice Chewlin

Yes.

36:55.79

Jennice Chewlin

Um.

37:00.41

Jennice Chewlin

Which is the system right work Carter produced more that is the system. So yes, we lose out on on that even in after school. You know when we're spending most of our living time at work. You know there aren't a lot of.

37:04.29

kitedart

Yeah.

37:20.22

Jennice Chewlin

So there isn't a lot of support to build these skills that not everyone you know was born with these skills. It's taught. It's learned. It's practiced and so tuning in is that 1 special piece that can really I think is the first step in feeling liberated. Is that awareness like you we keep talking about this word whisper. You know this whisper is weaved throughout your journey and then when do you get to? you know, lean in you know, turn your head just slightly to to listen to the whisper a little bit more because there's so much going on.

37:43.21

kitedart

Um, yeah.

37:58.60

Jennice Chewlin

Outside of us and even internally in our thoughts that can turn that volume down of the whisper. You don't make it so so small that you just forget about it. You know or you start to believe that this is just the way it's supposed to be.

38:15.54

kitedart

You yeah.

38:18.20

Jennice Chewlin

You know and so tuning in yeah is is a tool that is can be effective but it takes time you know to do an access to know how to do it.

38:32.20

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like cultivation and practice. You know? Um, yeah I love that So with that could we I'd like to switch to a coaching conversation.

38:36.50

Jennice Chewlin

Yes, in home.

38:48.86

kitedart

Was kind of feeling as you were talking about that right? that there's been a lot about the journey so far and that there's like okay now what? what are you? What are you working through now and what are some? Maybe what are some of the whispers that are coming up for you that maybe you want to turn up.

38:56.39

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah.

39:07.80

Jennice Chewlin

That's great. That's a great transition. The whispers you know so I have to say for me the whispers are coming through in scaling growth. Right now I am doing skill building workshops. But there's this whisper that saying and what else what else? you know? do you want to do because this is a part of it to provide these accessible tools. But then when my public health brain is saying what about the systems you know of these workplaces not just a perhaps one-off workshop. But a part where that can create longevity to these changes. That they're learning and so for me, it's just a whisper of like where do you know? where do I want to scale and grow. My team is it my um services and then what systems do I need to make. To support that grow that's kind of that's a big 1 right? And no, it's not.

40:20.20

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, it's It's not a simple answer by any means. Yeah I can I can see how that is and and and also coupled with within the context of your life too right? like being a mother Still, it's not like you know.

40:34.92

Jennice Chewlin

8

40:39.26

kitedart

You're going to go out and work 80 hours a week and just do more right? It's it's about staying within um the context that works for you. So um I think here's here's ok, this is not even a simple question that I'm going to ask here.

40:41.38

Jennice Chewlin

Correct. Um, yeah.

40:56.90

kitedart

And I'm I'm going to preface this with saying I don't know that you necessarily even need an answer but with this whisper of how it like I hear this like going bigger and what do you Think. Would really move the needle from a systemic perspective.

41:22.19

Jennice Chewlin

For me I think it's and I don't know if I'm answering your question correctly. But for me how I see moving the needle from a systemic perspective for the companies that I work with who I partner with who sign up and say yes. I Give a damn about the health and well-being of my team. Not only do I want you to do a workshop but you know I really think I need some help with like how am I supporting my workforce beyond this So I see moving the needle in sort of. And effort to help this company to have an audit right of their systems in place Now How? Well they're supporting their workforce now and their well-being down from your employee handbook if there's any mention at all about. Health and well-being all the way over to you know your decisions on pto and how they're taken the number of days etc. So That's how I feel moving the needle in regards to so. Hoarding Health and well-being at work. That's that's how I would explain that.

42:40.53

kitedart

Yeah, So what? I'm hearing as far as if if we look at like what are offerings. What I hear is an answer around your offerings and how you can further support so there's level 1 It's like going deeper level one or the outer layer of the onion is skill building workshops level 2 It sounds like might be an audit collecting the data of what's really happening and how are people really feeling about it and then I hear there's an even deeper cut of.. How do I support the leaders of an organization to really what I hear is the connect with their employees to create a culture that truly values. Well-being. And puts the systems and policies and actions into place to really make them be a living thing as opposed to something that looks nice or sounds nice but isn't really making a difference for people. So okay.

43:47.72

Jennice Chewlin

Yes, that's it.

43:53.60

kitedart

So I hear an expansion of services from the the workshops to an audit. What would that last layer look like in terms of so maybe.

44:02.67

Jennice Chewlin

He.

44:07.99

kitedart

Bringing in the lived experience of well-being and joy in an organization.

44:12.42

Jennice Chewlin

I Think after the audit that deeper level like for me which is like do the most a company who wants to do the most would be to have the workshop do the audit and then put in place those recommendations. You know like you know, changing their employee handbook or you know, bringing in plants to their office space changing the color of the walls. As simple as it sounds all the way to um.

44:49.85

Jennice Chewlin

You know I would love to see you know like and a change in policy of like even pto you know how the number of days or having a now a new floating day you know holiday you know and looking at that and then lastly considering. Even having me come in quarterly to reassess the employees Hey how's it going. We made all these changes are you feeling better? Are you feeling better supported. Do you enjoy the way your space looks where do you find joy at work.

45:11.27

kitedart

Ah.

45:14.17

kitedart

The.

45:24.58

Jennice Chewlin

Etc things like that.

45:24.64

kitedart

I love that I think that's great and and I think what's what I really love about that idea too is that nothing is a 1 and done really right? like we in our culture. want the silver bullet we want the answer

45:37.75

Jennice Chewlin

Um, Miss wall.

45:42.26

kitedart

But just like we've talked about with both your and my entrepreneurial Journey. It wasn't a I know what to do right off the bat. Um, we have to do some things and then reassess and iterate and I think that that that's a great um expansion of what you're doing. Is revisiting and checking in what? Okay how did it really feel. Did it make a difference. What's next and that's yeah, that sounds really great I Love that um I'd like to ask to I heard you talking about and I just know this to be true.

46:08.18

Jennice Chewlin

He.

46:18.89

Jennice Chewlin

Um.

46:21.50

kitedart

About um, creating a team at Chewlin Group right? And that not only I hear like, to me, I hear this other piece of you want a group of people probably so that you can expand your reach right? because.

46:24.10

Jennice Chewlin

Um, yeah.

46:41.28

kitedart

You have so many hours in the day and you want to make sure that you still have time to be mom and you know et Cetera etc. Um, but that also you want to, within Chewlin Group, create a culture that really values these things as well and to me that's another.

46:58.53

Jennice Chewlin

My home.

46:59.49

kitedart

Systemic piece right? You're being a model for how to do it and you're being a model for how to lead it and I wonder like how do you want that to start like what? What do you think would work there, for starting that?

47:21.50

Jennice Chewlin

I've always envisioned working with a team. I never thought that my entrepreneurial journey would end at just me. I know that for Chewlin Group, there'll be a team. Mostly because why we talked a lot about community right? So I want to build a space where I can collaborate with like minded team members who are all passionate about health and wellbeing. So i. For me I think the next step or how I envision it is to or I should just say you know I don't know how Karen I don't know that answer to that question. Yeah.

48:01.94

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, fair. So tell me what because and I know we've talked about this a tiny bit in the past. So tell me what? Um, when you think about starting this team. I Get part of it is I Just don't know how but like what feels hard about it.

48:22.76

Jennice Chewlin

Okay, will there be enough work to bring someone on what or does this have to look like? Does this have to look like a contractor role, which it can be right? But I really envision Chewlin Group to be a space where I can employ other health educators, others in the behavioral so change space and so for me, it's like this need to provide constant work. Fruit that so that others can make a ah living too.

49:00.68

kitedart

Yeah I appreciate that So I'd love to offer here and and just particularly because I get this question a lot right of taking on employees is absolutely a big commitment and. I Think it can be scary and oh foe we're gonna have to restart this? Okay, okay. Okay, so I think Janise that that is such a great question and totally fair that you don't know how um and and I think that I don't have the answer for your how to do it and I do talk with clients about this a lot and and I think part of it comes from the space of when you. That hiring employees is is kind of a scary step I think right that there's a lot of responsibility that people feel like you said for is there enough work that I can pay this person a living wage. Totally fair, right? because lots of capitalism doesn't care about that. They're like I'm just going to hire someone and if they you know. They should be thankful for what they get and that's not how we work so I get that it can be scary and I think that there can be again just like we've been talking about a progression for how this looks. So Maybe it starts out as a contract. Maybe it starts out of let me try this out.

50:30.28

kitedart

And I have this particular job and it's too big for me. So Who do I know that I can bring in as a subcontractor for this particular thing try that out see how it goes see what see what works see what doesn't and I think that if you've got someone out there who has their own business. Um, or or they're freelancing or however they want you know whatever the frame is for them. Maybe they've got a job but they're looking for something more fulfilling who knows what that is but I think it's like starting to talk to people about it putting it out there seeing who's interested. How can you make it work for you and them. And trying it out and gathering that data and then okay, what's the next step. Maybe it's another contractor. Maybe it's a team of contractors right? that but that you don't have to go straight from solopreneur to employer that there can be iterations in between. And those iterations can give you a ton of information about how to make it work and and also just that it can be coc createdated right? Like you don't have to have those answers yourself cocreate them with somebody. That's how I got here to kit and dart. Total experimentation right? and there have been multiple iterations of what it's looked like and have they all worked Nope. That's okay.

51:58.47

kitedart

Um, yeah.

52:03.68

Jennice Chewlin

Is in it.

52:29.89

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just I it was a side gig when I started over here right? so.

52:44.57

Jennice Chewlin

You hear.

52:52.69

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, so lean into that and then and it and even in in what you just brought up. You came back to your earlier point of oh yeah, we're not.. We're not taught that we can try things out and just take that risk and figure it out along the way and it's like well there that is again right? that that you can lean into doing it that way and it's okay.

53:08.52

Jennice Chewlin

Um, yeah yeah I think I needed I think I needed to hear that the message that I just got from you Karen thank you so much is that you know give myself permission to try it out.

53:23.38

kitedart

Um, yeah.

53:29.88

Jennice Chewlin

Let the data talk to you and then you iterate a new system. You know I like the idea of you're right I don't have to go straight to employer contractors. You know I am a contract contractor I Forget about that too. You know so I like that. Um.

53:39.33

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

53:47.36

Jennice Chewlin

And that look at you you at you know now where your Kite + Dart is that what you're referencing. Yeah I mean I'm seeing work right? I like that and I am a co-creator like that is my jam I Love I've. I Love collaborating like that is where my creative side comes out my joy I Just love you know, working with others and creating something So I like that. Thank you.

54:07.12

kitedart

Yeah. Yeah I think it is Important. We don't have to be good at everything and we don't have to have all the answers and it and again back to find community find people who can support you and at the same time. How do you lean into what you're really great At. To do it in a way that works for you So You don't know we just had a conversation that gave you a new way to think about it I Still don't have your answer and you know you like to collaborate and co-create and you want to pay people a living wage.

54:32.97

Jennice Chewlin

Ah, it's okay and look I just said on your podcast I was like you know what? I don't know how to do it I admitted that I don't think there's space for in our society where we're allowed to say I don't know how to do it. You know I'm scared to say I don't know how to do it. Let me just jumble things you know or you know answer on the fly but something while I was saying something I was like wait Denise you don't know just say that and then you said hey it's fair. You don't know.

54:48.82

kitedart

But you don't know that you have enough work for that So you can start co-creating something with somebody that works for you and them right? If you're bringing work to people That's like Golden business right? So many people don't.

55:03.68

Jennice Chewlin

You know and someone else who's maybe more seasoned than I am maybe listening and say woof like you're talking about scaling your team and you don't know that you know there might be some judgment on that. But guess what it's okay like I I'm here to say I don't know how like I can lean on.

55:04.22

kitedart

You know they're not in love with the whole idea of business development So Somebody brings them some work. They love that right? So How can you? you know, create it in a way that works for you and for them and and then I'd love to bring in earlier. You also brought up systems. Um, not the bigger systems change but systems for yourself and I'd love to offer again that right because you've got a full life with a lot of things on your plate. What are the systems that you can put into place that work for you that work for your family.

55:23.37

Jennice Chewlin

Professionals like you coaches like you that can help me have access to this information. So I I appreciate this conversation So very much.

55:37.82

Jennice Chewlin

Now.

55:42.70

kitedart

Maybe it's a matter of how do you simplify and even as you're looking at creating a team are there ways that you can look at these systems issues also from a team perspective.

55:59.24

Jennice Chewlin

Is happening.

55:59.56

kitedart

Potentially you know what I mean.

56:18.72

kitedart

F.

56:21.67

Jennice Chewlin

Um, me hang.

56:31.15

Jennice Chewlin

Again.

57:13.14

kitedart

Yeah.

57:21.33

Jennice Chewlin

Yes, right? Potentially Yes, um yeah I mean I'm I'm doing now what I know works best for me in my full life right now. So I think that if I were to make any more changes.

57:33.55

kitedart

My.

57:38.16

Jennice Chewlin

To my systems. It would be having to involve others. You know to to be able to answer emails or or send that speaker contract like little things like that that for me right now can get jammed up On. You know my full life. So I Just think thinking about it like that What you just said is um is helpful because I think that I used to get wrapped up with I I can't do what I'm doing because I'm also caretaking and then I would just stop that would.

58:08.91

kitedart

Yeah.

58:15.39

Jennice Chewlin

Not let me move anymore but approaching it with these kinds of questions that kind of helped me reflect a little bit more have helped me so release that paralyzation and lean into like well it might not look like. Everyone else, but it fits me and that's where I'm at it fits me right now and I celebrate my progress on that because it kept me from my focus and my passion. For too long. You know you know a good 5 years of working on other things instead of what I was aligned what what I value and what is alignment with what I want to do because I get this question a lot. Wow Jennice you know you've got four kids. You've got the twins at home and you're growing your business. How do you do that and I always say it's because I still have passion and purpose in my life. So I make room and I protect.

59:12.48

kitedart

Um, beginning.

59:19.33

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well and and I'd I'd love to offer one last thing about that because first of all to your point it works now there's going to be a new iteration and even as you grow it. There's going to be another new iteration and that's going to keep going. Um and also.

59:29.28

Jennice Chewlin

Things that I have passion and purpose for so that's me that's how I'm showing up in the world. That's how Chewlin Group is approaching business and I'm doing the best that I can. I'm no longer going to work in a um.

59:35.89

kitedart

That like as you as you expand your team and bring people on whether it's as employees or contractor contractors that um.

59:48.19

Jennice Chewlin

Space that keeps me limited as far as you know my my dreams I used to keep myself home. You know and complain a lot and just be resentful. But finally when I leaned in to that whisper and gave myself permission to do it on my terms.

59:50.48

kitedart

Process can feel really scary right? because sometimes what we have to do is we have to be willing to you know, sort of give up some of the money. Um some of the work to someone else when maybe we don't feel like we have enough for us. But that when you do that it expands your ability to make more money.

01:00:07.90

Jennice Chewlin

I'm finding that you know I'm I'm doing things happily and joyfully and still benefiting from my role as a caretaker and my role as an entrepreneur and.

01:00:09.11

kitedart

Doing the things that you really love right? So for example, if I pay someone to take care of these emails and sending these things out. How do I have the money for that. But if that frees you up to then get more speaking gigs or more workshops or do the audits then that's.

01:00:24.61

Jennice Chewlin

That's you know that's where I'm at and so the systems that I created now are benefit me for where I am now. So I know they'll need to change when I have other services or I grow my team So I'm curious What what that will look like.

01:00:27.51

kitedart

Money really well spent because you're making a bigger contribution through those things than through literally sending the emails but those have to happen to you know what? I mean So it's like sometimes we have to take that leap and be willing to to make that outlay. So that we can it opens our capacity for doing more of what we love and what we're great at and it's kind of this. Um, it's like the balance doesn't always feel great. It's a little back and forth and a little scary. That's my experience with supporting people with scaling. But that it it. It usually works out really well. Um, it's just a little uncomfortable along the way and that's okay, yeah.

01:01:21.20

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, and it's serving that bigger purpose when you said the passion and the purpose it's serving the bigger passion and the bigger purpose. So to me that's alignment. Even if it's uncomfortable. So. Yeah.

01:01:46.54

kitedart

Now. Yes, yes, yes, yes, totally okay, thank you for all of the vulnerability and just showing up with that today I think that that's just really fantastic and has made for such a rich conversation I have 2 more quick questions. Um.

01:01:57.71

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah.

01:02:01.60

kitedart

Will you please share. We talk about entrepreneurial activism all the time. So will you share what that means to you please.

01:02:22.88

Jennice Chewlin

Um, you hear he.

01:02:34.52

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, yeah I mean I like that advice because that can be applied to everything right? It's uncomfortable, but it'll be helpful in the long run.

01:02:57.65

Jennice Chewlin

Um, I like that That's so important it's um, it can be uncomfortable but it's in enlightenment and growth means that.

01:03:05.85

Jennice Chewlin

It may be uncomfortable right? They they have those wonderful memes about that.

01:03:27.83

Jennice Chewlin

Yes, entrepreneurial activism means that I'm using my passion my skills and my talents to do better in the World. So What I mean by that is obviously what I'm working. On which is building skills to reduce stress Avoid Burnout return to joy all of that is helping others feel their liberation feel their joy and there is so much darkness in the world that I feel. Contributing to others freedom and joy that I'm help being bright in the world and I'm doing it on my terms. That's the other. That's the entrepreneurial part of Activism for me is that I'm creating something and.

01:04:11.87

kitedart

Um, and.

01:04:25.89

Jennice Chewlin

You know an ethos that works for me and my future team where we can all feel good to show up to work together for others and also add that because I feel so um. Passionate about building Community is that I know that I've set up my business to make sure that I create something that will leave a sort of a legacy for my community and so I built a community fund within my business where. Ah, percent of all of our work goes to fund this community fund to help provide scholarships for individuals to attend workshops. It also helps purchase books that will help build libraries in my community.

01:05:06.23

kitedart

And love all of that. That's amazing, Very very cool I love and I love that you're infusing it into the business right? So that's really great. Thank you.

01:05:21.72

Jennice Chewlin

Organizations and these books are books that will help promote diversity and and diversity and inclusion because that's what's important to me so you know I talk a lot about health and wellbeing. But I also am very passionate about.

01:05:32.62

kitedart

Now Totally That's amazing. It's amazing. Um, okay last question will you please just share with folks how they can connect with you or learn more about what you're up to denise.

01:05:40.55

Jennice Chewlin

Children and families and promoting diversity inclusion I Love it. It's been a very special part of my journey as being a mother so we but we purchase books for others and then we also that part of that fund helps us run workshops. For children and families to attend to talk about diversity and inclusion and celebrating it and making it part of their family by learning talking about it doing a special um art project on it and so that fulfills. Me in my cup with making this world a better place so you know that's a long way to say like how I participate in our entrepreneurial activism.

01:06:17.58

kitedart

Well thank you Denise it's been a pleasure having you here and I just really appreciate you showing up with vulnerability and your truth and your story and I think that the list you know my listeners will just. Get be able to get so much from the conversation. So thank you so much.

01:06:34.87

Jennice Chewlin

Yeah, yeah, you're so welcome and it happened organically you you know and it's organic because it was like well how do I want my business to you know, look like. And what else do I care about how can I incorporate that into my business and that's what I That's what I do.

01:07:01.65

Jennice Chewlin

Um, yeah, the best place to connect with me is going to be my website and that is wwww.chewlingroup.com and you can also connect with me on social media. My handle for Instagram is discovering underscore community underscore and h as in New Hampshire if you're interested, and Karen, I thank you so much for this opportunity to connect with you. Thank you for this space and I loved all of the good juicy conversation that we had.

01:07:55.87

Jennice Chewlin

Welcome.