Now & Center: Entrepreneurial Voices from the Margin

Being Mixed-race, Balancing Family, & Capitalism with Sara Blanchard, Co-founder of Dear White Women

October 25, 2022 Karen Bartlett Episode 27
Now & Center: Entrepreneurial Voices from the Margin
Being Mixed-race, Balancing Family, & Capitalism with Sara Blanchard, Co-founder of Dear White Women
Show Notes Transcript

Episode Description:  

Karen talks with Sara Blanchard, Co-founder of the Dear White Women podcast, about their experiences being people who identify as mixed-race and the unique perspective this gives them.  They discuss the tension of scaling a business while prioritizing family, the ability of many youth to more easily move beyond our current societal context of oppression, and embodying the dismantling of white supremacy culture and the integrity of this in business.  Sara and Karen dive into a coaching conversation around being complicit in a capitalist system rooted in oppression and balancing the sexism, paternalism, and racism present in not taking money for our labor.

Links:

Schedule an Exploratory Call with Karen: https://calendly.com/karenbartlett/30min

Learn more about Kite + Dart Group:  www.kiteanddartgroup.com

Register for an upcoming event:  https://www.eventbrite.com/o/the-kite-dart-group-16435043586

Learn more about Sara Blanchard:  https://www.sarablanchard.com/

Listen to the Dear White Women Podcast:  https://www.dearwhitewomen.com/

Connect with Carin Huebner at Public Good Media:  publicgood.media

Original music credit goes to DJ Ishe:  https://soundcloud.com/ishe

00:27.31

kitedart

Hello everyone and welcome to today's session of the Now & Center podcast. I'm here with Sara Blanchard, who is the co-founder of the Dear White Women podcast. Sara, welcome and thank you so much for being here.


00:42.54

Sara Blanchard

Um, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.


00:45.72

kitedart

I am too I am too and I always like to provide just a little bit of context for how I know folks? Um, and I am so so so thankful that we got connected recently and I know we've only had 1 other conversation outside of this but I feel like ah this I just. Felt deeply connected to you when we first talked and I'm like I have got this super cool co-conspirator that I you know get to be in cahoots with going forward and I don't even know what all that's going to look like but I'm super excited for for what it will look like um I did know about you. It's so funny because. We got introduced through a fellow committed consultant if you will. I'm not sure if that's the best way to put it but you know but I'd heard about you because of your podcast; one of my clients was a guest on your podcast and just definitely am super impressed with the work you're doing with the Dear White Women podcast and kind of all of the other pieces that go with that. So with that I'd love to just invite you to please share with us about the podcast, about your business, and the work you're doing.


01:53.53

Sara Blanchard

Sure, yeah, um, so Dear White Women. It's kind of a provocative title I know and we state that our mission is to help more white women use their privilege to uproot systemic racism and I do it with my best friend. So Misasha and I are both biracial. We're both Japanese and white and we met twenty five years ago walking out of a, in hindsight, very fitting racial identity conversation about being hapa like half asian um and fast forward 25 years we've kept in touch all this time and. She lives in California. I'm here in Colorado. I married a white guy and have 2 white presenting kids, where she is married to a black man and has very multiracial boys that the world sees as black. And we realized you know our conversations I'm sure if anybody thinks about their conversations with some of their closest friends. It ranges from like what not to wear or like the most comfortable shoes or you know problems with school if you have kids too. We were really having conversations around our hopes, dreams and fears for our children. And we realized that what she was sharing with me about the fact that the world sees her boys as black that she really has real fears about them walking through American society because of how we have historically and currently still treat black people. Those conversations were not happening in circles outside of our phone calls, like we both float, you know we're biracial, in a lot of predominantly white female circles easily and these conversations were not happening so we thought, “Wow we are long distance best friends; we like talking to each other; what can we do about that? Let's launch a podcast and bring these conversations that we were having to more people that way.”  And it started and we thought like maybe 5 people, all of whom would be related to us, would listen. And lo and behold, we have like over 250,000 downloads and we're like super psyched three and a half years into it to continue the work There's certainly no shortage of conversation. Um, and last year we were able to turn a lot of our content into a really accessible book called Dear White Women. Let's get uncomfortable talking about racism because not everyone's a podcast listener. So together we do that work and we keep expanding to now speak with you know, schools obviously are very close to us as parents of younger children of school age children and organizations because the ugly truth I think of the matter is that people can hear similar messages. Differently from different looking faces and so if we can throw our hat into the ring and help people and help move this conversation forward because we're using our voices and our biracial experience and our experience as parents, then let's keep doing it because we really want to make the world better for for this next generation coming up.


04:48.72

kitedart

I love that. That is so so awesome and it actually I got chills as you were talking and I I Really even I because I don't think last time we talked I heard the story about you know you and her friendship and how that started and. 1 I'll just say I Really appreciate it as a multiracial person myself like I feel like it's been much more recent that I've been able to make those connections with other people who've had that experience of being multiracial and um.


05:24.77

kitedart

Just just the experience of that Really I guess is all I can say and it's funny I was adopted and raised by a white family so and didn't even actually know my my ancestry until I was an adult um late later in Adulthood So it's been this even though it was like always the thing that I was like I think this is real I didn't know for sure.


05:43.88

Sara Blanchard

That's fascinating.


05:44.00

kitedart

So Yeah I I found out I did 23 in me some years ago and like I said I've since high school wondered and thought you know like what is my ancestry I think that I I probably am. Multiracial biracial. But um, yeah, not knowing and then learning that and then processing that has been really Interesting. So Even when you're talking about the identity work or I don't I shouldn't say it didn't work but the the session that you were in talking about Identity. It's like interesting as I've been doing my own Like. Um, identity work for myself I've done work as a white woman and as a bipac woman and so it's been like kind of unpacking both sides of that. So I Love that you've had a best friend for all these years that you've been able to you know, have those conversations with I think that's really awesome.


06:40.58

Sara Blanchard

Yeah, oh that and that biracial and multiracial experience is something that I think it might be difficult for people to understand. But I feel like having been raised with a Japanese mom like an immigrant mom.


06:42.20

kitedart

So um.


06:57.66

Sara Blanchard

And a white dad I was always wondering where I fit in where do I belong because I still had Japanese Saturday school so I couldn't do girl scouts or sleepovers or soccer but I had lots of friends but I wasn't fully in like the groups right? And then I would go to Japan and people would see my face and they'd be like go home foreigner and so it was like well.


07:06.95

kitedart

Yeah.


07:15.27

kitedart

Ah.


07:16.40

Sara Blanchard

You don't fit in either those so you really are forced to forge your own path and really dig into your values and I think that's why you know Misasha and I met at that meeting not in it. But it's fitting that we met after they asked this question they said hapa are half half asian people's association. Are we half a person. Or are we double a person and that think a handful of us are like I don't think that's the question and we just sort of got up and left and we met in the hallway as we left the meeting mid partway through and so we've always had this sort of more um analytical or thoughtful like minds I get or like you know we we.


07:36.41

kitedart

Oh.


07:46.51

kitedart

Yeah.


07:55.34

Sara Blanchard

Wondering if that sits right with us and and how we process it together and so I think that was a good you know indicator of our our future together as friends.


07:55.70

kitedart

Yeah.


08:05.30

kitedart

Yes, yes, alignment right? That's a really interesting statement I'm like ok ah yeah, that's that's really great and and I think it really is you know my experience was different because I didn't know.


08:17.77

Sara Blanchard

But yeah.


08:20.64

kitedart

And I was adopted in a family with um, there were 4 boys. They were all biological. They were all white I was adopted I was the only daughter I looked racially ambiguous like it was just I had all of these reasons where I didn't even feel like I belonged in my family.


08:39.66

Sara Blanchard

Um, yeah.


08:39.71

kitedart

Um, I knew I was loved but I didn't really feel like I belonged and so it's so interesting because it's not like I had. It's not like I was like over here I've got this culture over here I've got this culture and I'm not sure you know that I fit in either 1 of them. But it. Was just sort of like even literally my home and then going outside of that you know all of the um things that come with being racially ambiguous and the questions and all of the things. So um, it's been I'm I'm so glad that you had that because for me as I've now. As I now know that and have gotten to connect with other people who are multiracial and biracial. It's been so that's like I'm like I feel more seen than I've ever been or I feel more seen heard and understood than ever as I've been able to be in those conversations. So and yeah.


09:36.63

Sara Blanchard

That's wonderful. It really I think what you just said means a lot because I can relate to that you know I had not met I only knew 1 other um biracial mixed race person growing up outside of my family and then I went to college and then I finally met so many more people and there's something about. Um, the the reality that you know that there is more than 1 truth more than one way to live your life more than one set of values more than one you know history. Um in different areas of our lives like.


10:07.81

Sara Blanchard

It's an you don't have to explain that understanding that openmindedness if you will I'm not saying it's better or worse. But it's it's a different thing that you don't have to explain to people who are multiracial or multiethnic and it is feels a little bit more like home like you you can speak to people who understand that the world is huge and that we are just 1 of 7 point. Whatever billion people.


10:13.00

kitedart

Um, yeah.


10:20.96

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so cool. So cool. Um, yeah I completely agree with that and and really appreciate that. Um, yeah, it's It's so funny because I don't even think.


10:27.49

Sara Blanchard

With with our stories.


10:40.93

kitedart

Last time we talked we really connected that much around this we connected around some other things that I'm just like oh this is so rich and and I love it and and I also really you know I'll just also call out that I really do appreciate. Um, how I I there's a lot of people doing de work justice work and.


10:41.84

Sara Blanchard

No, we didn't right.


10:59.90

kitedart

And I think that that's great and I'm like it takes all of us. But I really do maybe because I'm also multiracial like I Really appreciate what you bring to the table in this work and how you can understand certain things about a white-bodied experience and a person of color. Colored body experience and that was weird wording. But um, you know and and using the privilege that you have and using the understanding that you have and like carrying that load in a really unique and special way that can give people access to. Conversation and um I Do think like your your podcast right? It is provocative I Love that and I think it's great and it's also I think it's also accessible and um, yeah, maybe just accessible which I really appreciate.


11:54.26

Sara Blanchard

Yeah, that we made a really big point to to hold that tone because I mean I bring this so Misasha is a lawyer. She's probably the most brilliant person I know and also is ah a Historian and I.


11:58.28

kitedart

Yeah.


12:10.67

Sara Blanchard

Bring I'm a life coach I Love positive psychology and the the science of what makes people thrive and and so in our conversations It was very clear from the beginning that we really needed to say look making people defensive.


12:15.48

kitedart

And.


12:25.61

Sara Blanchard

Is not going to move the conversation forward. It's not going to actually make change. It's going to help people entrench and so we really made a point of you know while the title is is provocative and perhaps a little uncomfortable talking about Race and racism is uncomfortable for every single person on the planet right? There's it's never comfortable so we didn't want to fool people and yet.


12:39.55

kitedart

My.


12:45.42

Sara Blanchard

Um, if you're willing to step up to the plate and and dive in and and have introspective conversations. Learn history like hear other people's stories. We're your people because we really intentionally want more people to understand that it is every single one of our responsibilities to have conversations about race and identity not just. People of color or marginalized Community Members. You know as we go forward.


13:06.99

kitedart

Yes, Oh absolutely.. It's so True. It's going to take all of us right? and I always always you know, really hold on to it's going to take all of us because even the person on the podcast yesterday was talking about how like this is a Relay race right? And that. This work is like I don't believe that I'm going to see the world change in the ways I want it to fully before I die right? So This is generational work and and she was talking about how it's like you know we're passing the Baton because it's a lot and it's. Going to take a long time and we do need as many people as we can get to be to to be committed to the work and to be willing to be in the conversations and be willing to be with the discomfort and the messiness. So Yeah I Love all of that. So Let me ask this I'd love to have you share.


13:54.20

Sara Blanchard

Ah, her.


14:01.37

kitedart

More from the business side of things right? like what have been some of the biggest challenges for you in business and and that can be in general starting and running a business and also you know if you want to pull in anything in particular. Based on identities that you hold and how that may have also affected your experience.


14:21.17

Sara Blanchard

Yeah, thank you for asking that question we have sort of made up our own job descriptions by creating a podcast and becoming speakers and and people who lead workshops and conversations and 1 of the. Biggest challenges from the beginning um was how do we want to scale this business. What are our values. What are our priorities and I think I mentioned before you know both Misasha and I are mothers and our kids are in school and um for a long time I've been this primary caregiver for. Our children the way our family is structure and um works for our family is that like if someone forgot the permission slip I'm the one who will run it over if someone so I'm sick I'm the one like we had to prioritize um the ability to. Hold that space for us because if we're doing this work ostensibly to make the world better for our kids. It would be really ridiculous if we were not present for the kids while they were under our roof and we were raising them and so we're like okay we have to make sure we have not just the physical time but also save ourselves the energy to be the parents. We want to be. To these kids so with that in mind it was like I mean from from the get go. We were like okay we could easily publish another book. We could run workshops. We could. There's so many things we could do to make a difference but we had to scale our.


15:47.96

Sara Blanchard

Um, growth plans back to be very intentional and sustainable with the work that we do because we didn't want to scale up and then come back down and sort of ruin our own um ability. You know our bodies our energy to sustain this work longer term and so yeah, we. Started with the podcast for a good solid two years before we took on the book and then now we're doing the speaking like it's been very intentional slow scale growth. Um in terms of what we are going to be doing and putting our energy into so that kind of conflicted with my type a personality of like let's go out and like get as many lists. There and as much money as possible, right? off the bat. Um, and so I had to you know rein myself in and and and retrain in that regard. But it was really nice having a partner in Misasha to help navigate that um to to discuss what we want what our values were I would say on the content side being. Biracial but not black. It is very interesting when certain companies like want more proof if you will that we are are okay to have in this conversation. Absolutely you know what we will never. If if you want to hire black speakers and black to ei employees and and absolutely a hundred percent yes please do that and if you're not going to have anybody or if you're not making progress in your organization. Please don't discount. You know the many other voices the many other identities don't.


17:15.56

Sara Blanchard

Only focus on that and not focus on lgbt q I a diversity like don't just focus on anti-black racism and forget about ableism or ages There's so many things that we can retrain ourselves on and learn about um that that we wanted to make sure. Um. You know that we were keeping space for companies who were were hoping for people who more understood the black experience because aside from being married to a black man for Misasha right? Like we are bystanders to people's stories. We are so are like. People trust us with their stories and allow us to share them but we don't experience them ourselves so that kind of how do we navigate that and and ask people and entrust have them entrust their stories with us without over you know when we're doing the interviews for example on the podcast sorry I switch from speaking gigs but like we're interviewing people on the podcast it's like I want to ask these questions. For example, we interviewed Marcus Bullock who is the Ceo of a company called flick shop and they do incredible work because he was incarcerated. Um, at the age of 15 in an adult penitentiary for a crime. And he realized how much it was sucking the humanity out of those individuals who were incarcerated and launched flickshop which is a way for people to take pictures and turn them into postcards that will be sent into their family members or their loved ones who are.


18:45.67

Sara Blanchard

Currently incarcerated to keep them updated because there's no technology in the same way that we have outside. Um and so I wanted to ask I've never spoken to someone who's been through that experience and I was like how do we ask questions without causing more trauma without reinvoking the pain and so constantly navigating that.


18:59.18

kitedart

That the.


19:04.73

Sara Blanchard

Um, you know I'm sure there are times where we will will. We always make mistakes in this work. But it's been something that we've constantly wanted to be mindful of to not trigger people. But fortunately everyone who comes to speak to us wants to speak and has done some work enough to be able to share their stories. So we've been really really lucky in that regard.


19:13.61

kitedart

Yeah.


19:24.30

Sara Blanchard

Ah I mean I'm sure I could talk about so many more more things. But.


19:24.39

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, Well I'm curious to know, let me let me ask this question kind of as a follow up is like so so there was a lot there right? like there's part of it has to do with being a mom. And how to have that balance I don't like to say work life balance because I think that that's a weird delineation. But how to have that um space within your your family life for the things that are really important while still. Moving the business forward and really what I feel like I heard there was not getting too caught up in the progress is bigger more sense of Urgency This has to happen right Now. Um, and then I heard you talking about the.


20:14.76

kitedart

My easy way of saying it is sort of just the messiness right of being in this Dei space and and part of that needing to part of that having to do with um, making sure that you're not taking up space when someone's particularly interested in having a black voice. Partner for the journey but that there is room. You know, kind of back to what you were saying earlier there. There is room for everybody in this work. It's just a matter of finding sort of that right spot and then um and then talking about like the sensitivity. The empathy. Ah, the emotional intelligence for the tough conversations you're having right? Um I'm curious like it's I I First of all, let me just say I kind of love what you're even bringing here right? because so often and this isn't like a right wrong or.. Whatever it's just different right? that that a lot of times I feel like the struggles people have have to do with maybe more things like you know, being willing to get out there and sell and being willing to um, you know market and you know what? but. A lot of these things imposter syndrome like a lot of these things and again I'm not saying those are all super real. But this is just a different flavor of the challenge that you really had. Um so I'm just curious like if there's even you know 1 or 2 real.


21:43.11

kitedart

Takeaways that you could share with listeners.


21:46.43

Sara Blanchard

Yeah I Love thank you for categorizing and explaining those because on your first point when you talked about this idea of of um I don't remember how you phrased it but it was Great. Um. But it was almost what struck me when you were saying the first part of like the chasing the money and all that sort of stuff those structures of urgency of perfectionism in the work that we do I've I have come to learn that those are perpetuating and upholding white supremacy right? It was this idea of Like. We have to be perfect if you're not if you don't have quote perfect hair. For example, what is perfect Hair. We all have different hair but it's upholding a so specific sort of white centered structure and so as we've I think some of that struggle was really.


22:32.50

kitedart

Yeah.


22:38.40

Sara Blanchard

Coming to terms with how we've internalized that sense of urgency and that sense of capitalism and like I mean these sound like big words but it's really about taking that pressure off yourself and remembering that we're human every single one of us is human and so when I realized and learned that those were also part of those systems that we were Upholding. We were like that's not. What we intend to do. We must embody our integrity I guess runs like high enough that that was one of those things that we needed to consciously challenge ourselves to dismantle and approach the work differently on top of that talking about anti-racism and talking about systems of oppression is like heavy work.


23:15.65

kitedart

Yeah.


23:17.53

Sara Blanchard

It's not like light and fluffy. Let's talk about the latest swag I mean it's really like it. It is it can be very disheartening especially when you see where our country has come back to? Um there's a great film a documentary called who we are that was created that that it and is a documentary about. Um, where we have been in the civil rights struggle and where we are now but they had a great visual of this. You know we're pushing this ball up the hill of change and right at the top right when we could like just take a little nudge extra and roll down the other side and make change. We're kind of. Coming up against this thing and we keep rolling back and that's where we've been for the last multiple decades in the civil rights struggle and I feel like hearing stories like that and seeing where we are as a country now um can be I think for any 1 of us who follow any of the news and and talk to people of of different beliefs and experiences. It can be really disheartening and so we've also had to think about how do we keep our mental health up and our hope up and we have found that a lot of that comes in the form of the kids they have been sponges if you talk to children who understand for example, pronouns.


24:21.90

kitedart

Ah.


24:31.41

Sara Blanchard

As a lot of our children in Colorado are raised up by middle school kids were going around and if they wanted to they were sharing their pronouns and they would all come around and and 1 time during the course of the school year I referred to one of my kids friends and and my daughter's like oh they go by they them now like no big deal. Kids understand that we are all individuals and we all have our own experiences if if we allow them to be the voices that we listen to and learn from I think that gives me hope because they really do see so much about justice sort of in their more pure selves. Um, so we also had to make space in in.


25:03.46

kitedart

I.


25:08.66

Sara Blanchard

A lot of this to listen to them and and make sure we tapped into that hope.


25:10.94

kitedart

I Appreciate that so much I don't I don't know if I told you this before but a big part of my background is in elementary education and so I've definitely just spent a lot of time in the education world with youth and in it. It is one of those things and I remember this even when I was young. Is like the the discounting that comes with age right? and that youth don't know and adults know better and it's I Just so appreciate because and and I learned from I learned from my kids all the time and their friends as Well. And. And I I Really do appreciate the matter offactness of so many things that seem to be really hard for older generations to latch onto and understand and and that does that gives me a lot of hope as Well. And. It. It gives me a lot of hope and then it's also just I love that you're very intentional about creating space for those voices. The voices of youth because man they know so much and they're so creative and they are so innovative and they like I think I think so much of it is that um.


26:16.20

Sara Blanchard

Thank you.


26:25.19

kitedart

They're so inquisitive and they haven't they don't have all the years of conditioning that we have to a white supremacist ideal to a patriarchal ideal to a you know, heteronormative ideal etc on and on. Um.


26:41.31

Sara Blanchard

But I think that that speaks to just to take it out for like to you know we're talking about right now kids that I know in Colorado and California right? I'm zooming into the conversations I can have at my kitchen table with my children with our family members. But if if I sort of Zoom the lens back out.


26:43.60

kitedart

So I really love that.


26:52.28

kitedart

Yeah.


27:01.00

Sara Blanchard

Over our entire country I've also been really mindful to tell the kids look. You're being raised in a state and in a family that is open about talking about racism or our history. Our true real history that has happened factually in this country. Um, the real news that is happening right now. The Trends the.


27:08.95

kitedart

Yeah.


27:20.62

Sara Blanchard

Division you are going to be raised and running this country with people who are currently being raised in states like Florida or in Texas or again I have family and who are raising kids in Texas nothing against these states either. But those kids are growing up with a very different set. Of in- homeme values depending on the home but certainly state values where they're not allowed to talk about their family being gay or their own identity. Um, where they are like banning books on the holocaust like their take their.


27:42.56

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.


27:51.46

kitedart

I know.


27:54.60

Sara Blanchard

Because you need to have a balanced view air quotes heavy air quotes of the holocaust. What? what? what? views are you planning to to share so I had to make sure my kids understood that because I do feel like people who are afraid and therefore are more angry or hating.


27:59.51

kitedart

Yeah.


28:13.10

Sara Blanchard

Are very loud and if we don't give our kids and give ourselves the permission to get loud with our views of understanding individuality understanding and and valuing all of humanity. We're gonna be drowned out. Um, it's only recently that I just felt like this was like.


28:14.72

kitedart

Ah.


28:25.47

kitedart

Yeah.


28:31.50

Sara Blanchard

The side of humanity I sort of Joke I know that you can peg me as being court of a liberal then right? but I really feel like it's important for us to to really speak out. Um, if we do feel like.


28:45.28

Sara Blanchard

It's important for us to stand out for each other like none of us live in a silo like ah we're not isolated like we used to be back in frontier days. Um, and so because we're so interconnected I Just hope that more people who who see that who value that really do take the time to to.


28:51.13

kitedart

Yeah.


29:00.99

Sara Blanchard

Jump in if someone's making an inappropriate joke or make sure that they take if they have the the ability and the privilege of voting to take that to the voting booth and really continue to to make change in whatever ways that they can.


29:14.25

kitedart

Yeah, such a good point. Such a good point and and it is funny because as much as I feel like there's so much out in the world that um, you know really is rooted in the fear and the hate and these things.


29:29.50

kitedart

I'm so lucky in my little bubble of people that I'm around on a day to-day basis that like they're really different and so it is really important to I mean of course I know that so much of that exists right? like it. It gets really hard to turn on the news and see over and over and over. These really harmful things happening. Um and reminding reminding the youth that like what you're experiencing and what you're seeing isn't everybody's experience is really important because yes you.


29:59.88

Sara Blanchard

Yes, my my dog is ypping in the background I'm sorry if you can hear him but I will I want to hold up this book so you can see it did I talk to you about this the last time because this book fractured is currently blowing my mind.


30:06.21

kitedart

No I can't.


30:13.34

kitedart

Ooh.


30:15.78

Sara Blanchard

And it's called fractured why our societies are coming apart and how we put them back together again and you can see I'm like sort of a 2 thirds of the way I haven't gotten to the how we put them back together again. Solution part of the book. But it really explains this idea that you know you mentioned you're in your bubble I'm in my bubble unless I make a point of reaching out right? and.


30:33.84

kitedart

Yeah.


30:35.78

Sara Blanchard

And unfortunately as human beings. It's important that we all know we are all wired to look for and are attracted to people like ourselves right on on all of whether it's racial socioeconomic education religion like there are many um layers but we usually tend to find people who are like us.


30:42.12

kitedart

Yeah.


30:55.49

Sara Blanchard

In society in the past this book is talking about. We've always had this third party place where we meet people from different socioeconomic backgrounds schools used to be a mandated place where you would meet people of different socioeconomic backgrounds that has changed there used to be churches from different pulling from different socioeconomic or or backgrounds you know there used to be. Um, clubs freemasons that people joined that would meet people from different walks of life. We don't have those structures in the same way we did in society we are at another inflection point in society where we're not investing in and getting ourselves out of our like little bubbles.


31:19.19

kitedart

Where.


31:31.50

Sara Blanchard

And so we are increasingly in our Silos and so we have to realize that we are inclined to do that in order to make a point of finding those people we can care about outside of the the same way that we look at the world. So I got to find out the solutions but I would I'm so excited if anyone like.


31:45.79

kitedart

Um, so yeah I can't wait I will sounds lovely I will get the book and once we get the answer. We'll just do it right? Yeah, we'll just do it. Yeah.


31:49.97

Sara Blanchard

Reads the books and likes it talk to me I'm excited to discuss this.


31:57.82

Sara Blanchard

Yeah, you know.


32:02.70

kitedart

No I I Really appreciate that and I and I think it's so True. It's it's interesting because um I think there's very much a both and right and yeah I like I know that you you brought up the characteristics of white supremacy right? and I've done a lot of that work as well and infuse that in the work I do with business owners and so. Um, it it you know I use it as a constant framework to think about how we're approaching things and it's so interesting because I do think there's a real both and here of making sure that we're looking for.. How do we get. Other voices in the room. How do we connect with people with different perspectives experiences, um, values, etc et cetera and at the same time I also subscribe to the belief that like. Within business particularly let me say like my business that the biggest difference I can make for people is with people who share a lot of the beliefs that I have So for example. I Believe that our business culture is highly influenced by white supremacy culture by Patriarchy by Capitalism by Extraction. No list by by extraction transactionalism those things right? And so.


33:32.63

kitedart

People that I can make ah the biggest difference with inside of business in terms of helping them grow their business are those who also believe that and see that and want to change that and so part of what I'm always trying to get very loud about is.


33:51.35

kitedart

Look at these things right? This doesn't work. This isn't how a lot of us want to do business. We want to do business in a way that is based in humanity in relationship in in um, regeneration in you know in impact and contribution. And so it's interesting to hold the tension I guess between calling out very loudly. What my beliefs are and how I can make a difference for people. And also still look for how can I get outside of my bubble bring in more voices. Um connect with a wider range of people. Yeah.


34:40.86

Sara Blanchard

I think that's it's good that you said that because I think one of the things we've been coming up against in our work is that some people are seeing the world as 1 or the other and I think it's so important what you just said is that we can hold to. Complicated seemingly at odds thoughts as truths at the same time and we can do both. We don't have to it's it doesn't it's not just black and white I guess that's kind of a pun but like there's a lot of other stuff right? that we can that we can.


35:04.28

kitedart

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


35:17.64

Sara Blanchard

Um, learn from one another and yet I I agree with you that when we build our businesses like actually can share a story from Misasha's business. She used to own a fitness studio and she given her values put a very bold black lives matter sign in the window.


35:25.65

kitedart

A.


35:34.52

Sara Blanchard

And was told by some people. Well, that's going to drive away a lot of business. She actually found that it grew her business because it made it very clear that the people who were welcomed. It was a safe space and there were going to be like boundaries drawn around acceptable you know interactions and and it was and people could. Find that shared value and so there is a lot of room for growth when you do get very clear and and loud about your business values as Well. Um, so I I think that's great that you shared that.


36:03.30

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well and it's so funny that you say that because my business partner Nate had a very similar experience. Um, you know he's the founder of this this company. Um and he. Had a situation where he really kind of took a stand and and was terrified that like oh my gosh is this going to cause me to lose a bunch of business and I think his business I can't remember the exact number but I think his business kind of like double in a pretty short amount of time once he you know, stuck that that flag in the sand and. And that's what I work with my clients on all the time is how are you taking that stand and being super clear about about your values and what you stand for. So that you can find those folks who you can really help the most. Um, but and then to your point that there's there is this other side of things of like also how do we bring in more people and be more inclusive and and get more voices at the table so to speak. Um. Not that I love idea of the being around the you know the table but um and and kind of back to the black and white too I think that so often when people think of both and um or maybe it's not even that. But it's like maybe I don't know I feel like a lot of times people will be like.


37:33.89

kitedart

Well not everything's black and white. There's a whole lot of gray in between and I think that's totally true and to your point of what you were saying. It can be black and white at the same time also and gray and brown and orange and yellow and purple like. We can contain all of those things like we are not binary individuals which luckily we're more and more learning that. Not everything needs to be binary. But um, that's 1 thing I've really been kind of working to embrace myself lately is yeah like.


37:52.90

Sara Blanchard

Okay.


38:09.38

kitedart

I'm you know I can even like say emotions I can be really angry and also really grateful at the same time or whatever you know? so.


38:19.34

Sara Blanchard

I Think they have shown that if you're grateful. You can't be angry at that moment but biologically which is interesting but overall I get what you're saying um like yeah yes.


38:27.80

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, maybe you switch real quick back and forth I don't know. Yeah yeah, um, no I Really like that. It's great. Let me ask then? Well let me just let let me give some space. For if there's just anything else. That's kind of come up through this conversation that you'd like to share about your experience as a business owner and what you've learned and I know you said you could go on and on but just anything else that feels salient right now.


38:56.61

Sara Blanchard

Um, yeah I think the the one thing I would say is that we have found a lot of people I'm sure anybody Listening. Um. Might be able to relate especially coming out of the pandemic is tired people are tired right now and I think unless they feel a personal connection to talking about race which often if you are in ah a member of a marginalized community If you feel like you have to fight.


39:17.40

kitedart

Yeah.


39:33.92

Sara Blanchard

To be accepted in any way. Um, you're more likely to be willing to engage because you have to in order to survive and make it but those who have the option to opt out are kind of feeling like they want to because they are so tired and unless you have a personal connection or a reason to stay in this conversation.


39:49.70

kitedart

Um.


39:52.43

Sara Blanchard

We're finding people or like are we over this whole racism thing already and to those people I want to say please don't because the system will not change without you. It's not that we're fighting white peoples. We're fighting white supremacy because that is a power that is ah a pressure ah like we talked about that that perfectionism.


40:12.17

Sara Blanchard

Comes in that you know that that is something that I feel like pressures a lot of white women that I know and so if we can understand where our personal connection is to this force of white supremacy then we can really continue to reinvest in whatever sphere slice of the conversation. It's going to be Maybe you do say like let me go on a crusade against perfectionism that will help. There is a lot of different angles to this fight but I want people to opt into this fight because it affects every single one of us whether you think it does or doesn't um so that's 1 thing I just want to.


40:43.62

kitedart

You have.


40:47.38

Sara Blanchard

Want want to say just find your personal connection because it really is something that we are all living in. It's the water we are breathing in as if we were a fish I Know there's a much more graceful way to use that analogy. But.


40:56.84

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no I totally got what you're seeing. Yeah so true and and I really appreciate that and I'm just going to second that Sara like yes, everybody please like please take those words to heart and and and I'll just offer on top of that that to your point that connection. Point can be anywhere like the work I literally do is bringing that lens to business and how can we look at how we're running our businesses how we're growing our businesses so that we're rooting those things out of our businesses. Our business practices. Um. Not just in an outward facing way but also in that internal facing way and and I'd even offer that that's what I've been doing for the past I don't know four to five years and the transformation the personal liberation. That I've gotten from having business be my access point to rooting out these systems of oppression. It's been so phenomenal like I can't even I can't even say how big the transformation's been and. And that when I get that liberation for myself. It clears the way for others right? and when others are doing that work when you're doing that work. It's clearing the way for me and I just love the I think it's such a synergistic It's such synergistic work.


42:17.49

Sara Blanchard

Here.


42:31.51

Sara Blanchard

Yeah, yeah.


42:32.49

kitedart

That we have cut out for us and but but that that it really does affect. You know we affect each other in that kind of a way. So yes I Just want to second what you're saying and and that's my own. It's been my connection point for the past several years and it's been so impactful.


42:51.21

Sara Blanchard

That's so cool I Love your work.


42:51.58

kitedart

Thank you I do too I I get to do the coolest thing all day long I I Love what I do um so ok with that. Let me actually um, kind of shift the conversation a little bit so that I can do part of what I Really love to do the most which is have a coaching Conversation. So Will you share with me or with us something that you've been grappling with in your business as of late and we'll see if we can uncover any new little nuggets for you.


43:22.32

Sara Blanchard

Oh yes, I'm so excited for this because it's something you know so I mentioned Misasha and I um work together and and we bring such different lenses to our conversation and it is fantastic because we can often work out problems. Um ourselves. But. We Both have been totally grappling with this idea and it came up I think a couple of times in our conversation today. This idea of anti-racism or are working to dismantle the systems of white supremacy capitalism being one of them and yet. In order to run a business you want to make money to have a value exchange. So How do we process this like do we deserve to make money sort of thing like how how do we?? How do we show our value I mean we've already one of the things she has always said you know when people have asked us. You know how do you gauge The success.


44:03.24

kitedart

I.


44:13.40

Sara Blanchard

Your platform or your book and she says I think that if 1 person reads this book and has then uses the knowledge gained through our platform to be in a situation where they could affect the lives of one of my children or someone who looks. Like 1 of my children and helps to save their life in a big or small way we have been successful and I love that I think that's fantastic I can't run a business on that though, right like or can we? How do we process this idea of like we don't want to buy into the make a ton of money but we want.


44:38.23

kitedart

Ah.


44:42.37

kitedart

Yeah, ah.


44:49.36

Sara Blanchard

Make money because there is an energy and a value and a ability to sustain our everyday lives through growing the business.


44:56.71

kitedart

Yeah, oh such a good question. Okay, so this is really funny because I I subscribe very strongly to the belief that as a coach My job is to help people uncover their own answers and.


45:12.68

Sara Blanchard

Ah.


45:15.27

kitedart

Have to be honest on this one. This is literally foundational to the work that I do and so I if it's okay with you I would love to offer how I think about this? um and then we'll see maybe if that uncovers anything for you. You know what? I'm saying like so this is.


45:28.96

Sara Blanchard

And that's so excited. Yes, please share your consultants. Yeah, teach me, please teach all of us.


45:32.52

kitedart

I'm sort of like putting on my like education hat. Or yeah, I'm not goingnna tell you what to do I'm Goingnna put on my educator hat because this is more about how we think about it and I appreciate this a lot and I've grappled with this a lot. So I'm also going to give some credit to an neat is issue lap guard my business partner because you know he's the. Person who got me started in thinking in this different way and that's where we've grown kite and dart from um so there's a few access points. Let me think a little bit about where to start I think the first thing that I'd offer is that. To your point the capitalist system we have right now is rooted in white supremacy right? Um absolutely I'd offer that with capitalism with white supremacy. We're all complicit whether we like it or not right and I and I think there's a there's a bit of a grappling and maybe not so much for you because you are so in this conversation right? But um, I'll say for myself I I had to really come to terms with. My complicity in the system I was an educator for a long time I had to come to terms with my complicity in a system that I think harms children I'm not going to say it doesn't help children but it harms children too. So I think that it's like.


47:05.33

kitedart

1 on the one hand we have to come to terms with being complicit in a system and at the same time that we can work to change that system right? and again this is kind of holding the tension for the both and. We can be complicit in the system because we have no other choice. It is the the water that we're swimming in like you said and we can also work to dismantle it every single day. Um, so that's kind of the first part of what I'd offer.


47:41.56

kitedart

Another piece that I'd offer is that is is that when you have a business that is rooted in values and we call them source commitments around here. They're kind of what I try to think of as like a little deeper cut a little deeper layer of why we do what we do and what we really care about and what it's. What we're really committed to creating to me. It's It's an act of creation source commitments are are the access point to our deepest creativity on the planet because it's what we're committed to creating on the planet. When that is front and central to a business as I believe it is in your business then even though you're complicit as I said in the system of white supremacy in the system of capitalism as it, exists, etc, etc. If you're making decisions in alignment with those source commitments and those values on a daily basis then that is your dismantling and that it isn't just about the content of what you say on the podcast or the. Your message at the public speaking event or the work with an organization or you're talking to youth. It also has to do with what what offerings do you have and how are you pricing them and how are you creating space for inclusion and diversity and justice.


49:11.35

kitedart

Um, where are you banking I mean it can be like big things and little things but the the more that you can infuse every single decision in your business with intentionally being in alignment with those commitments you're working to dismantle the system. At the same time. Lastly, um.


49:39.50

kitedart

On the money piece. So There's There's a lot there and I'm not going to say that I'm like a money mindset coach or anything like that like I believe like money is it's like we attach so much baggage if you will to money right. And it's because of what's been done to us. But if we can change our relationship to money to really be and like that it is about that exchange that Energetic exchange. Um, and we know that in the society we needed to live right? like we have to have it. So. And and we deserve it right? We we're worthy. All of us are worthy and it stinks that our system doesn't treat us as such but we're all worthy of having it. Um but that the money in and of itself isn't going to be the thing that gets you out of bed every day and isn't going to be your impetus for growth.


50:33.51

Sara Blanchard

Describe.


50:35.94

kitedart

But that money can be a reflection of the contribution that you are to others right? So for example with the book that you have no way to measure did the book create impact in such a way that Misasha's sons don't are you know are are kept out of harm's way and are valued as people you you can't measure that but the more of those books that you sell the higher likelihood it is that there's more impact there you know what I mean and so we talk a lot about.


51:08.53

Sara Blanchard

Right.


51:13.65

kitedart

We're not using money as the motivating factor we're using contribution as the motivating factor but money can be indicative of the impact that we're having and that if we can keep that in mind it it gives us a different frame for. For kind of growing the business that was a lot of words by me I'm going to stop and just give you a chance for like what are you hearing? What are you getting.


51:42.69

Sara Blanchard

1 of the things that I heard that I appreciate that it is true for us is money is not the motivating factor. Um, and and that you can tell I think if we're honest with ourselves what is motivating us to do a thing is it just to. To make the money for this project or is it because we really want to get into the juice of it and I think it's similar to when you were talking earlier about um the challenges some of your clients face about marketing and and I think the moment we like started marketing. It. We knew it wasn't going to be. Look at me I have this message it was look at the message this is the message we happen to be the vessels that can deliver the message that freed us up energetically to be able to do that and and I think from that perspective the money has just been been flowing and I think that's where.


52:14.26

kitedart

Yeah.


52:27.46

Sara Blanchard

I have to admit I'm very fortunate financially Misasha is fortunate financially compared to to like we we are able to do this and and sustain ourselves and do that. So I think even something is specific is for our Patreon you know? do we say if you give to us 25% we'll go to a charity or can we. Openly accept all of that money and just people will trust that we will then do good with the money to offset the cost of doing the podcast and and that sort of thing I think even though specific decisions have been tricky because of the emotions around um like how.


53:05.13

Sara Blanchard

Shouldn't We just freaking volunteer shouldn't We all be volunteering shouldn't all anti-racism work. Be a volunteer job because it's good for the world and I don't think it should be I right? I don't think it should be necessarily but it but it's a conflicting energy conflicting emotions around that.


53:14.31

kitedart

Um, I I who so my question.


53:21.91

kitedart

Ah, right? But I think that there's a lot of good things that people do in the world that they get paid for right and don't they deserve to get paid right? Like yeah.


53:36.51

Sara Blanchard

That's true teachers.


53:39.88

kitedart

I mean I I was a teacher for a long time and I felt like I was doing good I mean I I still have some conflicting feelings about that. But that's okay, but like I was there I was well intentioned I was there to to do good and and I never felt like I made enough money. So. Especially for how many hours and how much stress I had right like I I mean I honestly feel like I value the work that dei folks are doing in the world so much I would rather I would like to see them being paid more and more and more. And you know we've got what professional athletes they make millions of dollars right like I'd rather see any I'd rather see you making a million dollars a year for what you're.


54:24.11

Sara Blanchard

Okay, fair point. Yeah, you're right? You're right.


54:36.60

kitedart

Doing because I care about what you're doing it and it all comes down to values right? and source commitments right? Like we always say the number 1 predicator of conversion is source commitments when there's that alignment with what somebody's doing of course I want to pay you a million dollars and pay whatever football player wouldn't just a couple 100000 be enough like I don't know you know and I'm not saying football's not great. Whatever people love it. But like where where are values right? And so.


55:07.95

Sara Blanchard

Are here.


55:13.60

kitedart

I Think that there's such a conditioning around doing good that we have to give and give and give and I think that we deserve to be compensated. For the work that we're doing and money is not bad money gets a bad rap. But that's because we've seen people who have so much of It. Maybe not be really responsible with it. Um, they're doing what's in alignment with their values which can just be I want more more more right? I'm not saying all people are like that. But there's plenty people who have a lot of money who do great things with it. So I think part of it is divorcing. The.


56:01.26

kitedart

Beliefs around money and what it means I think part of it is about that We are all worthy and deserving of money and that I want the most money to go to the things that I value the most as does everybody.


56:15.75

Sara Blanchard

And I saw one other thought that popped into my head as you were saying that is the conditioning as a mom who is a primary caregiver and I think there's been a lot in society now about unpaid labor I am so conditioned. To doing so much emotional and calendaring labor for my family that I forget that yes that deserves recognition and and value and I mean in the ideal world money right? like people like it's it's unpaid right now but it doesn't mean it's any less valuable and so I think if I can. Remember that that's separate right? That's a whole other bucket of conversation to be had and that doesn't necessarily have to bleed into I'm doing value added work for here too and I also shouldn't get paid just because I do value added at home right? like that can be very different.


57:01.11

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I really believe that that that that's part of white supremacy and that's part of patar patriarchy right? like as women as Bipac as whatever identity. Right? We've been told our value comes from our labor. The use of our bodies and it's not worth that much by the way and we're just supposed to do it and we're supposed to give and give and give and give and give we've been conditioned with that and I like. To give I like to but I I like I like to be a contribution but I deserve to be paid for that and and the home being a mom and renting a household and yeah, that's a whole like that's a whole conversation in and of itself like by all means. But to me that's a thing that I've had to I've I've been working to root that out of myself that I have to overly deliver that I have to give more that I have to undercharge like to me that's just part of the white supremacist system that we're both working to dismantle.


58:12.81

Sara Blanchard

Mind Blown I Like what you just said? Thank you.


58:14.57

kitedart

So yeah, like I think it's a radical act of defiance to go make a ton of money right? and the other thing I love to say if you don't mind is that. When you were talking about like should I say oh we're giving this much money to you know nonprofits or to this cause or to whatever I honestly believe that there's so much performative stuff happening in the world and and I'm sure you see it all the time. You know I think do what feels right? to you? do? What feels an alignment to you I've listened to your podcast I know you're not doing this podcast to be performative I have every bit of confidence. That whatever you're choosing to spend your money on that you make good for you like again, right? like paternalism do people have to know what you're spending your money on in order to give you money or can we trust. 1 another that you know what's best for you to spend your money on and I know best. What's good for me to spend my money on right.


59:37.49

Sara Blanchard

That's so fricking Cool I Hope you all heard this too. Yeah, thank you, Thank you? Yeah, it feels freeing. That's a good indicator.


59:39.45

kitedart

Um, ah yeah, yeah I Hope that's helpful. So um, yeah, cool is there any more on that for you right now I know there's.


59:56.48

Sara Blanchard

Yes, I mean you can if you are seeing this. You can see I'm just like thinking and and in my brain here I I'm going to sit with that because I feel like that is worth a look across the board with what I have done I mean it applies to the business and and.


59:57.35

kitedart

Integration processing etc. But.


01:00:14.51

Sara Blanchard

These questions. But I think there's something to be said about how that has been internalized in me as a person and how I show up in other Realms Also and it's an exciting opportunity to really dig in and see how am I you know overdoing it. Because of what you said internalizing as a woman as a bipock woman like that. It's my body and my labor and I'm supposed to just give it for free or for for nothing right? yeah.


01:00:36.75

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like they're entitled to it right? That's what they've told us it's what they want like Nope sorry yeah yeah, yeah I Love that.


01:00:48.79

Sara Blanchard

Yeah I like that it's very much like actually no, that's not how it works around here anymore. Thank you! That's really really cool.


01:00:56.47

kitedart

Yeah I love that good I'm glad that that gave you a little something. Um, okay so I have 2 last rapid fire questions. Ah which I don't warn you about. But if you've listened you know so one of them is a quick what does entrepreneurial activism mean to you.


01:01:02.31

Sara Blanchard

Okay.


01:01:12.84

Sara Blanchard

It means to me similar to what you just said. Actually this idea that you're intentionally creating a business which by definition is solving a problem but creating a business whether it directly is an activist business. Or by revolutionarily like making conscious choices about where they're banking where they're spending their money where they're sourcing their paper from what like is just doing um making change with every decision that they make.


01:01:44.40

kitedart

Love it of it. Love it. Thank you The last question then is will you just share with my listeners where they can find you how they can connect with you if they want to learn more or engage.


01:02:01.25

Sara Blanchard

Thank you? Yes, Dear White Women dot com is a web website that has all our information you can find our podcast on there. You can also listen to our podcast anywhere except Spotify wherever you listen to podcasts. Um, we have our book which is available in most bookstores but you can also find that at our website Dear White Women dot com. We are on Instagram and Twitter for our social media. Um, but we also have a a newsletter so sign up for that and then if you want just about me and the positive psych stuff you can find me at Sara Blanchard Dot Com a rablancharddotcom because I have a lot of the more happiness and positive psych related work that i. Mostly used to do I'm much more committed to Dear White Women nowadays but you can find us all over the great interwebs.


01:02:42.72

kitedart

The interwebs fantastic Sara thank you so much for being here with me being in conversation for the work that you do I definitely want to encourage anybody to go listen to the podcast I can't tell you exactly how many episodes I've listened to but I just. Conversations I've heard have been really fantastic and um, so so thank you for the the work you're doing and thank you for being here with me today.


01:03:06.65

Sara Blanchard

Thank you so much for having me and for doing your work too. It's great to continue to get to know you better.


01:03:12.21

kitedart

Yeah, and I'm like everybody should stay tuned for when we have all of the answers figured out and whatever co conspiring we do in the future because there will be more.


01:03:20.92

Sara Blanchard

Um, ah absolutely.