“What is Enough?” and Being a “Community-Made Woman” with Jenn Uhen, Founder of The Pledgettes

00:00.00

kitedart

Hello everyone and welcome to today's session of Now & Center as usual I'm really excited about my guest today. This is a person who we met years ago at a coworking space and I you know we connected and I think we. You know there. There was some alignment and connection and I think it's really interesting that it was like in a random coming back together years later that I feel like understanding an even bigger alignment happened and and it's just resulted in some really really great conversation. So. Um, with that said, my guest today is Jenn Uhen. She is the founder of The Pledgettes. Jenn, welcome and thanks for being here.

00:44.70

Jenn

Thank you so much for having me and I love that intro because I feel like our paths have just randomly crossed multiple times and continue to do so and much like you I share the same sentiment of our conversations just get richer and richer.

01:01.92

kitedart

Yeah, and I think it's even funny how? um I I'm so big on alignment and I'm actually really good at like feeling alignments with people. Um, so to speak and.

01:02.17

Jenn

Time we talk.

01:18.43

kitedart

I Really always since we met I enjoyed meeting you and talking with you but like I said I didn't really understand how deeply our alignment was and I think part of it maybe had to do with you know I won't name names but had to do with where we met and how that space ultimately wasn't. The most well aligned space for me to be in and so then having our paths cross multiple times in different places uncovered more of that right? and so it's kind of even a good lesson for me to be like you know and maybe part of it is I wasn't as vocal about my beliefs.

01:38.33

Jenn

Same.

01:46.91

Jenn

Yes.

01:55.66

Jenn

Interesting. Yeah and I think for me too a lot has evolved I think we met early twenty nineteen and and we're both evolving and I think we're both lifelong learners and the more we learn.

01:55.69

kitedart

Back Then as I am now and so maybe that's part of the difference. So but it's it's been kind of cool to to notice.

02:07.53

kitedart

Um, yeah.

02:15.70

Jenn

The more we want to do something about what we're learning about.

02:16.29

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, so true and it's it's kind of interesting for me because I've really come full circle to work that I started in college and this was a really big commitment for me but I lost um I think in my conditioning and.

02:28.10

Jenn

That's awesome.

02:36.18

kitedart

And the world I was living in. Ah there was definitely like a silencing ah holding back a holding down a don't ruffle feathers sort of I mean I always kind of have but like there was definitely a dampening of that. Um I don't know if that's the white word. But.

02:51.94

Jenn

Um, yeah.

02:55.39

kitedart

Anyway, you know there was a there was a tamping down of that. So um, yeah, it's a journey and absolutely I'm a lifelong learner as Well. So um, so with that will you please just to get started off so people know a little more about you. Pledgettes the work you're doing and and I you've got a lot of other things going on. So ah, feel free to talk about The Pledgettes and if there's other things you want to talk about bring it in because you're trying to make a difference in a lot of different ways. So.

03:22.87

Jenn

Yeah, so I would say None and foremost I'm on a personal mission to shift where well sits in our society and I do that through The Pledgettes which is a financial community for values driven women i. Do that in the way that I invest my partner and I invest in businesses and real estate in. Um, ways that you're in the intro where you talk about Extraction. That's such a. Ah, strong potent word for me because I believe that we can build wealth without Extraction. We can can lift up multiple people. Um and and so we we really try to do that and I think my partner and I a few years ago when we were.

03:59.89

kitedart

Um, and.

04:13.80

Jenn

Identifying our values and our goals and how they connect with each other. Um, we talked about it. We want to make a big impact on the lives that we integrate with um, we're not trying to go have a huge impact on the world. But in the ways that we are impacting individual lives that are close to Us. We want that to have a ripple effect to for those people then to influence the circles that they're in and so on and so on and so um, The Pledgettes again as a financial community for values driven women. Because we know that each individual money Move. We make has a collective impact to building healthy healthier wealthier Communities. So Um I definitely look at it as a little a lot of little drops in an ocean that hopefully have a. A positive ripple effect out.

05:08.34

kitedart

I Love that. Definitely definitely? Um I I Love this topic to just or maybe it's not the topic but it's the lens that you bring to the conversation because. I'm so used to working with values driven people as well impact driven and some of them are like some of them are like yeah I want to make a lot of money I Want Wealth I Want to leave a legacy for my family I Want to impact. Whatever whatever,, whatever. And I also have so many people who are like those givers and those helpers and they're like constantly giving things away. They're constantly under undervaluing themselves undercharging these kinds of things and so I Just think it's It's super cool to be like. Have someone who is fully fully embracing I Want wealth for me and mine and ours and others and like and I care about making a difference and it isn't about extraction but it's about. Those who hold the wealth are so I mean it's such a small number who hold really big wealth. Yeah significant Wealth. So I Love the I Love the view.

06:24.92

Jenn

Significant. Well yeah here and I think that the the question that comes up with money I think the top question whether it's um, subconsciously or consciously is what is enough.

06:40.62

kitedart

I.

06:43.16

Jenn

Because there is so many people who you know I I feel like my partner and I have enough but there are certainly Uncertain. There's certain uncertainties in the future around how long are we going to live what's going to be the cost of Health care will I have medical emergencies. Well. I have some bad Fortune Somehow will I make mistakes that cost me money and so I think because there is certainly a lot of unpredictability in the future. It's easy to say I better have a padding or a cushion I better have an emergency fund I better.

07:15.96

kitedart

I.

07:21.48

Jenn

Stock up what I have and that that is coming from a scarcity mindset and I guess the opposite of having this abundant mindset with money is that there's always going to be enough. Money's a renewable resource. Um, and and I think when you look at like. Anything in life. It's not a black or white either or you'll never have enough. You'll always have enough. We're always somewhere in the middle and when we when we try to fit ourselves on one end of the extreme.. There's a lot of pressure and stress and.

07:40.80

kitedart

I.

07:58.90

Jenn

A lot of night. There's a lot of there's a lot. Um, and so I think we and and it's like when we kind of play in the middle of like.

07:58.54

kitedart

Yeah I Love how for people who can't see you're like holding your chest right? and that that's that's like a who right? yeah.

08:13.51

Jenn

At the beginning of covid my partner and I we owned a restaurant we owned multiple real estate rental properties. We both did consulting our consulting went to 0 immediately at the start of covid and.

08:24.75

kitedart

Ah, and.

08:29.36

Jenn

We knew that we wanted to keep our employees at the restaurant having as many hours as possible so we went out and we started shopping for instacart shipped and door dash because those were people who were hiring and we just wanted money flowing in money likes to Flow. We don't know what. We didn't know that like the government was going to support small Businesses. We had a good inclination that like the government wasn't going to let every small business fail but we didn't know there was a lot of uncertainty when support would come. What would it look like would we qualify for it. We're both self-employed like there is so much going on that.

08:54.75

kitedart

Ah, have.

09:05.91

Jenn

All we could control in that moment is we need money coming in because money gives us more choices. So how can we make money today. Let's start doing these gig working jobs and and get it going in which you know neither of us had done before and and. It wasn't something we aspired to do but there were a lot of pros to it in terms of keeping us moving keeping money flowing and and learning more about these these systems and these giggock opportunities and who's actually really profiting off of them and.

09:26.49

kitedart

Yeah.

09:40.60

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, there are which this is totally a side note note but um because I know that you are interested in learning about worker owned co-ops as as am I and I'm sure you saw this but that that in here in Denver well I know you're not in Denver right now. But here in Denver.

09:42.38

Jenn

Lessons everywhere. Karen.

09:50.18

Jenn

Yeah.

10:00.52

kitedart

There is the um, they're they're forming a worker owned co-op for drivers for ride sharing um and to combat the model of uber where it is like the top takes it and the drivers are like struggling so I was like.

10:06.78

Jenn

Awesome.

10:17.46

Jenn

Yeah.

10:20.11

kitedart

Yes I love that like I can't wait till it's up and running I don't think it is yet but I can't wait till it is because yes I will immediately delete Lyft and Uber from my phone you know.

10:28.86

Jenn

Yeah, it was fascinating to my so my husband he did more door dash than I So we owned a restaurant that used door Dash. We as a customer have used door dash and then he drove for door Dash. We kind of saw the door dash process system from 3 different perspectives and I think again kind of just more to learn.. There's a lot. He learned about that of who's getting the money where how what is the experience of of each of the players in there. Um.

10:47.16

kitedart

I.

11:05.80

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so true I also wanted to pull out. You're talking about the gray and this is 1 thing. Um I've just been really playing with in my own life for myself right? is.

11:05.21

Jenn

And it's all interesting. Nothing is right. Nothing is wrong, but we can do better.

11:21.21

kitedart

Because we talk all the time right about how in a white supremacist culture. Really there is this focus on trying to force the either or right because if we can get if if we can force the the either or that is divisive. It's separating. It's right like.

11:35.73

Jenn

Um, yeah.

11:38.38

kitedart

So in addition to being with the gray area I've also been so playing around with the both and of both extremes and how it isn't only the gray in the middle but I can literally be this extreme and this extreme at the same time and.

11:52.77

Jenn

Yes.

11:56.63

kitedart

And that's okay and it actually makes perfect sense.

11:57.79

Jenn

Yes I can believe that black lives matter and blue lives matter I believe that both black and blue lives matter now I don't believe that one matters more than the other like I don't know the. The solution to it but I don't believe that the solution is to make it an either or.

12:21.32

kitedart

Right? Yeah, yeah, well and and ah it kind of goes to it kind of goes to how our society is so focused on forcing the either or because. The whole point of black lives matter is that Intel until everybody sees that black lives matter that like that needs to be talked about like that is a problem white lives have always mattered.

12:57.72

Jenn

Um.

12:59.84

kitedart

So now black like like people need to get on board and it isn't has nothing to do with anybody else. It's it's just I don't know. Yeah, it's you're forcing it to be a choice.

13:08.57

Jenn

Yeah, and I think it's it and it's a lot of learning I've learned a lot from the black lives matter movement I've learned a lot ah from the blue lives matter movement like I I think it would be very challenging to. Be in a family that has police officers firefighters because they their job is harder Teachers jobs are harder and I Maybe it is is all of this forcing and I think the either or shows up a lot in finances too. It's and.

13:34.14

kitedart

A.

13:42.88

kitedart

A.

13:46.41

Jenn

And religion and money is is is very tightly connected too of like the stories that we've learned in church or from the bible of rich people are greedy poor people are the blessed. In in the bible right? It's always like the tax collector is evil for taking money from the poor when I don't believe that tax collection is evil like I think that's a ah good part of our society and when we try to say like that side's wrong that side's right, you know? and and when we look At. If we look in the bible as like poor people are um, like the blessed are the ones that need taken care of I Do believe that they need to be taken care of but I've also seen um, homeless people in um, on the mall bus on None street mall. Yelling at a ah guy and his son that he wanted their pizza that they were holding while this homeless man already had pizza and the guy pointed it out to Him. He goes I don't want this pizza threw it out the door I Want your pizza like I've seen that and then I've struggled with like well who's the good and the bad and I think it's like.. It's that conditioning of either or and when it comes to money. It's like rich people are greedy, rich people are bad and I don't believe that to be true I believe that money amplifies who you already are so if you are a generous person having more money can make you more generous if you are.

15:00.82

kitedart

But I have.

15:15.64

kitedart

I had.

15:20.17

Jenn

Passionate about building healthier wealthier communities having more money can make you healthier and wealthier and help you live out your values and I know that your listeners and you and I have these values of of seeing everyone in the community of supporting everyone in the community of making it a safe.. Great place for for the larger community.

15:42.55

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, it's so true I Love I Really appreciate just that that money amplifies and I So think that's true right? and and that goes in both directions. So I definitely and I and I.

15:52.15

Jenn

Yeah.

15:59.94

kitedart

I think that it is you know it is just really important to be able to keep that in mind because I do think that that conditioning around people with money are bad.

16:16.72

Jenn

M.

16:19.72

kitedart

Keeps people who want to have more justice from wanting money which just you know? yeah the more money I have the bigger difference I can make but in the in the things that I care about. So um, yeah I Totally agree with that.

16:25.73

Jenn

Totally.

16:35.51

Jenn

Yeah I mean there's there are ultra wealthy people who have more money than governments do and and there's a lot of there's a lot of lessons learned as to how they became ultra wealthy and I'm.

16:40.64

kitedart

Yeah.

16:53.96

Jenn

Do they need to be probably not I don't think that ceos need to make 300 times their um, average employee because there's no way the average employee can work None that's not in our lifespan. So let's.

16:59.74

kitedart

Yeah.

17:06.99

kitedart

No yeah.

17:12.41

Jenn

Let's figure out these equitable ways. But I think also you know and the story that we've been conditioned to on that is that we need the opportunity to become ultra rich to motivate and inspire. Innovation and risk taking and if everybody just got everything that they needed then nobody would try for more and I think that that's saying that money is the only driver to contribute to community and to contribute to the world and we just.

17:45.53

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so true and that it really does like the fact that so many people don't have what they need don't have the basics it really does stifle innovation and creativity and.

17:45.54

Jenn

Know that not to be true.

18:03.97

kitedart

And the difference that people could make and I oh it's so it's so true like we we have it very backwards and it's also like you know power like the power the extraction that right like.

18:04.86

Jenn

Yes.

18:23.46

kitedart

That is a strong strong force and good.

18:24.18

Jenn

Yeah I mean we've yeah we've seen when we set people up to succeed. They have the opportunity to succeed. It doesn't mean that it's a guarantee for them to succeed and so I think that we look at a lot of programs and we say. Yeah but None of the people didn't succeed so it's not a good program so we need to stop. It's not It's not worth it like if we can't eradicate polio. We shouldn't try to make the lives of those people better like you know I think it's like we get rid of the individual way and so one thing that. I love about having wealth and building wealth is that as a real estate investor. My partner and I we have an equal amount of below market rent properties that we do for what we call our performance properties and so this is an individual choice that we've been able to make and and it definitely took like. It wasn't our none property like right now I don't think I could buy a property in Denver and offer below market rent because the market's just too wild and but we do have a couple below market rent properties and they're not the section None government which you know if we did that maybe we would receive more tax benefits and. All of that. But we've just found. We bought one property that we inherited the tenant and he had lived there for None ears and when he moved in he was paying $500 a month in rent and when we got it at the time he was at none in rent 10 years after living there. Got them up to like 900 because our costs went up but a market price in that building is 13 or fourteen hundred a month so it's like we get to let this 80 year old man who has lived in this home for 10 years stay in his community and we make.

20:06.38

kitedart

I hear.

20:17.19

Jenn

About $300 a month off that investment where we could make an extra four or five hundred dollars so we could make $800 a month but these are the choices that we get as investors. So I think also that kind of narrative of rich people are greedy. It's also there's a narrative that investors are trying to extract the highest performance possible for every dollar that they invest in different ways and it doesn't have to be so you know don't stop. Don't decide not to become an investor because you don't want to extract value.

20:39.52

kitedart

Um, yeah.

20:50.14

Jenn

Find ways that you can be an investor that align with your values whether that is with housing or businesses or even the stocks that you choose to invest in if you want to invest in the Stock Market. There's different ways that you can make. You can make some return without trying to extract the highest return and still be making healthy or wealthier communities.

21:14.15

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, so true. So true I think I was I was with what you were saying there too. It's it's I'm kind of reflecting back on the whole question of like what is enough and that that there's not a simple answer to that.

21:26.37

Jenn

Um.

21:32.24

kitedart

Um, and that some of these uber uber rich people who have so much right? where they're trying to give back I think None thing that has been frustrating to me is to um, see how. It's like oh well we have this foundation and we do. We give away these grants and that kind of thing and all the strings that come with it and the paternalism of well it's my money so I'm going to tell you what to do with it and how to spend it and so it's like again, it's not even clear cut that.

22:10.91

kitedart

I'm super wealthy and I'm giving back. But then it's also like how are you giving back right? And for you, you're doing this um tangible like person by person like I'm making a difference for this person right here who gets to stay in their home in their neighborhood. Um, and that people who are you know have these foundations and that kind of thing. Yeah, it's great that they're giving back but like how are they doing it. So It's so complicated. That's you right.

22:36.42

Jenn

Yeah, it's so complex but like my tenant I don't put strings on it of like look I'm not going to raise your rent to 1300 unless you spend the rest of the the difference of this money in this way. But when I look at the billionaire pledge and.

22:50.48

kitedart

Right.

22:55.82

Jenn

And I think the gates foundation is is highly criticized for having strings attached to their giving. It's interesting because um, their perspective. What I've heard bill gates say is that if if he doesn't. Get a return on the investments. The Foundation's going to run out of money and so there is like this do teach a man to fish. Do you give a man a fish kind of question that I think he's playing with and again, nobody's perfect and there's not these either Ors. So is he doing it right? I I like to believe that he's doing it to the best of his ability. But I think the bigger question is Shh should he have gotten so much money in the None place or if there was a wealth tax or if.

23:33.88

kitedart

Yeah.

23:41.85

kitedart

Right.

23:47.18

Jenn

Wealthy people didn't have so many tax loopholes. He could still have a lot of money and make choices in how he's giving and using his money but then also the government would have more money to fund the irs to do audits of rich people to. Have more programs helping people to have more none time homebuyer programs or to have more business grants through the Sba. There's a lot of options and I think you know like we could just speculate on how other people use their money all day. But.

24:14.80

kitedart

Yeah.

24:23.62

Jenn

What we get the choice in is how we're going to use our money and I think that's what's Great. It's like I don't I don't aspire to be ultra rich I aspire to have enough and to do good with my money while still building wealth. Um. And I think that's that's the cool thing is is how can we as individuals use our money in ways that are more values aligned.

24:41.45

kitedart

Um, yeah. Yeah, Absolutely absolutely. Um, so let me ask this just to switch gears a little bit I'm like there's so much and we were having a conversation before we got on and I'm like oh my God the whole RoeVWade and all of that like so there's freakonomics and I'm like there's so many things that we could talk about but.

24:55.95

Jenn

Is.

25:05.85

kitedart

Um, business right? So I appreciate all of this conversation around wealth and then and and so there's the the difference that you're making and and what you're really trying to do for yourself and for others and then there's running the business so which you share with us.

25:08.19

Jenn

But yeah.

25:20.46

Jenn

Yeah.

25:25.13

kitedart

You know what are some of the things that have been challenging for you in in running the pledgettes um getting it going or any of the other businesses that you are involved with.

25:33.40

Jenn

Yeah I think well gosh as women who own businesses I think that there was there are some really strong narratives that have hurt women for a long time around businesses of you know there was the girl Boss B s. Like every woman should own her own business and then there were the mlms telling women that they're business owners if they join an mlm where really they're an independent sales consultant and as independent sales consultants. That's a great opportunity to be a self-employed person and an independent consultant and that's awesome. But to say that you're a business owner is a little misleading because you're not making choices around pricing people products. You know you're not making business decisions but you might have a good gig. But the idea that every woman should be a girl Boss is a really toxic narrative because being an employee is a great professional trajectory and neither one is good or bad again the either or comes up.

26:38.00

kitedart

Yeah, the north.

26:41.89

Jenn

And then I think there was a couple years ago the narrative of know your worth and raise your prices and you're not charging enough and and know your worth my worth is not attached to the income that I produce and when we do that we're telling women that.

26:53.60

kitedart

Right.

26:59.59

Jenn

If you don't raise your prices you you believe that you're not worthy where pricing isn't determined by our worth I mean I could say that my worth is a million dollars an hour like that I would love that to be my worth but we also have to look at other things around like what's the market rate and what are the services we're providing and and what's the budget that our target audience has because if if I'm calling on fortune None companies versus a solo preneur. They have vastly different budgets for the services that I might be offering and that's going to change my business. So I think the idea that like there's these like 30 second narratives that just get blasted everywhere can be really toxic and so um, there's also been kind of all of these things of ah.

27:35.72

kitedart

Yeah.

27:53.30

Jenn

Of ideas that women should do for their businesses I think there was the None on one coaching which I did um but I knew that there was a ceiling because I could I only had so much time and if I'm trading my dollars for time There's so much I could make um then it was like the online courses it was. Writing an ebook it was and then there was the communities and community has been a huge value for me forever and I knew that there was so much financial literacy out there. There were so many. Books you could read. There are so many online courses you could take there were so many people that you could talk to for None on one coaching and what I didn't see was a community that offered different perspectives and different ideas so we bring in different speakers to talk everything from money mindset to different investing opportunities. Um, and to offer this community where it's a safe place to talk about money. It's a great place to celebrate wins and share experiences and ask questions and build your financial a team. It is a community and do something else for your financial future life and hire. None on one coaching or financial advisors or build your financial a team do this and an online course do this and read a book. Um, but community this is a challenge the community model only is profitable at scale.

29:16.70

kitedart

Ah.

29:19.80

Jenn

If I build all the structure to have community and I have 5 people in my community I would have to charge them a boatload to to break. Even so I think the biggest challenge of starting the pledge Ats that is community None is that the business model.

29:22.82

kitedart

Yeah.

29:37.40

Jenn

Financials of the business model only works at scale. So how do I get from zero to break even um, but I and I think with that comes a big challenge that I think a lot of business owners feel is that there's a lot of shooting on the business I should be on Instagram.

29:38.41

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

29:56.89

Jenn

I should be on Tiktok I should focus on my newsletter I should have blogs I should get on all the podcasts like there's all these shoulds of of the opportunities and and the options that we have to grow our business and so for me, the challenge is always.

29:57.46

kitedart

Have.

30:14.48

Jenn

How do I stay focused and prioritize and test 1 thing and give it the time and space to actually see if it works in my business or not versus like jumping every day to like something new. Um.

30:24.79

kitedart

And.

30:32.91

Jenn

And I think that's my biggest challenge is is how do I stay focused. How do I prioritize my time and so with myself and the independent contractors that work on The Pledgettes. We like to ask Ourselves. What can I do with our soup with my superpowers. To get us to the next milestone to hire out something. That's not within our superpowers but can help us get to the next revenue milestone and the next. But yeah, every day I'm like should I do this should I do that.

31:02.70

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, so I'm curious right? So um, can we. There's 1 other thing I want to bring up that was kind of around a should but with what you're saying, um, it sounds like a good opportunity for a little coaching conversation. So can we.

31:17.16

Jenn

I Would love some? yes.

31:20.73

kitedart

And okay I've been on that and then I have another I want to I want to talk about the whole nonprofit thing. So um, so first of all I just want to I Want to say I think you're super on the right track in terms of focusing on your superpowers right.

31:23.98

Jenn

Yeah.

31:39.88

kitedart

And that's why I do the work that I do is that those shoulds are so strong out there and the shoulds are based on false equivalency and so what None person should do perhaps None person who might be a ciss white male. Versus cis white head female versus a non-binary person versus a bipoc person versus a person with disabilities versus blood la la la right? Like we're not to mention that even within any of those identities. We're all unique individuals and so we. None of us can do it all. That's insane. It's crazy. It's not happening. It's not going to work all it's going to do is lead to burnout and failure right? Which is you know what? the system wants us to do right? Big business wants little business to fail because there's more for them to gobble up. But. You know it's it really all those shoulds are based in in false equivalency and that was one piece that really helped me personally not that this is about me but just that really helped me get out from underneath those shoulds because they're they're posing the shoulds as a. The the binary again the right wrong, get bad and it's not what it is. It's what's right for me and what works for me and I had the same thing um around social media. For example, like that that I should be on social media and I don't like social media. It's.

32:55.80

Jenn

Yes, yes.

33:14.77

kitedart

I'm too distractable to even get on there and like know what I'm doing 2 minutes later and I just it's just not my thing. Whatever no judgment to anybody who it is. It's great, but it's just not for me. So so really looking at you know your values.

33:21.59

Jenn

Um, yeah.

33:34.35

kitedart

What you care about the difference. You're committed to creating and your way of operating and how you do things well and what works for you I think is spot on in terms of that now it does mean we have to be with the possibilities. And really intentionally look at okay, there's because that's one of my things I'm like this big opportunity person. So I can be like Squirrel Squirrel Squirrel and and I did that for the first couple years of business.

33:58.57

Jenn

Yes.

34:07.99

kitedart

So for you I don't know how long and and it then all of a sudden I was just overwhelmed and exhausted and like oh my God I have so many things to do that I couldn't do any of them So and that isn't to say I know you've got a lot of different things going on and and if that's what works for you. That's great.

34:15.25

Jenn

Yeah.

34:26.61

kitedart

But it really is like what serves your bigger. Yes, what serves your higher purpose. What serves what you're doing the most and knowing you're never going to be able to do it all and we've got to be able to let go of some of it right? It's like saying no so we can.

34:41.40

Jenn

Um, yeah, yeah.

34:45.47

kitedart

Have the bigger. Yes, um I'll shut up for a None and see if there's anything coming up for you.

34:51.73

Jenn

I love that that last quote you said definitely is something that resonates in my head a lot of anything that I'm saying yes to is a no to something else and I think kind of as you're talking it really reminded me that. When I was a full time employee I everything was I it was probably tested it was tried and true and tested and I knew that if I did a b and c I could expect x y and z and. Because I was part of this big system and this big patriarchal. My clients were all like in a Triangle Patriarchal Org chart and they had a lot of rules and structure and a lot of systems and processes in place and I could easily navigate. Systems and processes and cultures that existed there to win the game to be successful in that environment and then I think when I left full time work and started this business and started a business that is only profitable at scale then there was this extra stress of like. But it's not It's not instant results I'm it's just all these tests and it's and like ha and some of the tests you do see instant results whether good or bad. Um, and then some stuff like it takes. So long to sort of see the results and then you're like well I know I need to do multiple things for people and and I don't know I think like the the patriarchal system that I worked in previously was easier to navigate than and easier to make choices in.

36:42.65

kitedart

Um, yeah, well in the thing I think the thing is is that when we're sort of the cog in the machine we're just told right and there's a certain level of responsibility. But we're told what to do.

36:42.81

Jenn

Than being a business owner in this environment.

36:54.54

Jenn

Yeah.

37:00.99

kitedart

When to do it How to do it right? And when we're a business owner. They're like you're saying we don't know and so I think kind of getting back to I care't where if this was before we push record or not but we were talking about innovation and creativity it was during this right innovation and creativity right? And so.

37:17.62

Jenn

Um, yeah.

37:20.69

kitedart

When you're in this space where you're like oh my gosh. My business isn't making enough money and I need to know what to do to get it to a place of making enough money then we definitely start looking at the binaries and the either or and which is right and which is wrong.

37:23.24

Jenn

Um.

37:37.60

kitedart

And it stifles the creativity and the innovation. But if we can take that step back and like 1 is being is the intentionality and like knowing how to make those decisions. We weren't taught how to make those decisions in school we were told what to learn when to learn.

37:50.49

Jenn

Right.

37:56.82

kitedart

How to learn it and what constituted mastery I can't believe how often I say this probably both on this podcast and to my clients we are not. We're told we aren't taught how to make those decisions and how to be with the messiness of not knowing.

38:06.21

Jenn

Um, yeah.

38:16.67

kitedart

And so one I think is really looking at it you said test I say experiment I look at business as an experiment everything I do I've got a hypothesis I'm going to make a plan I'm going to carry out the plan and I'm going to see what it what it says and in just like in science. How many of.

38:23.56

Jenn

Yeah.

38:36.30

kitedart

Our hypotheses are incorrect and it's also not like that they're wrong or right there's the gray messiness right? and and even if the hypothesis is correct today. It might not be. We might not get the same answer a year from now or 2 years from now. So we've got to be able to sort of.

38:38.54

Jenn

Ripe.

38:49.26

Jenn

Right.

38:54.10

kitedart

Be with the messiness and I think that the thing that we can hold onto that gives us the lens to making the decision is what is inside of us which is our values and commitment to change and what we're great at and love to do.

39:11.51

Jenn

Yeah.

39:13.46

kitedart

Those are the knowables that we have and and I will point to that in terms of superpowers I think that looking not only at what we're really great at but what we love to do because there are things we're good at but I don't like to do them. And I'm not going to. You know when you're talking about.. There's so many things on my to do list and that I could do um, not even should could I I there's I'm not going to do certain things just not right? So So we know what we are great at.

39:35.27

Jenn

Bright.

39:49.16

kitedart

We know what we love to do and what we feel pulled into and both of those things can change and we know what we care about and the difference we want to make and every decision coming from those things that we do know to shut out all of the other shoulds.

40:04.84

Jenn

Yeah Karen I would be so interested in seeing like what you would put if there was a maslow hierarchy of needs for small business owners because that's because. We were essentially talking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs before with innovation and creativity that if people are fed sheltered cloth then they can get then they can go up to the next level on Maslow's hierarchy of needs and etc and I wonder if there is something for the business owner that. What is the equivalent to food shelter and clothing on the business owners scale because I think that's what you're talking about is like we can't be creative unless like our business is getting fed and there's protection. And something else. But I think that would just be something very interesting to explore at some point.

41:02.73

kitedart

Okay, I'm going to have to think about that I mean in some ways It's the same thing right? and it's why there's a challenge because in the beginning of business. Most folks don't have the money now now let me not let me let me back up. Let me say there are plenty of people who start businesses who have.

41:07.54

Jenn

Um, yeah.

41:20.92

Jenn

Yeah.

41:22.30

kitedart

Capital or they're given a business right? Oh I got Daddy's business right? And and yes I'm being sexist there because that's how that's looked a lot right? like it doesn't have to but there's there's been plenty of that businesses handed down through generations. Um from male to male to mail. Ah there's been plenty of. You know, access to capital. It is hard for a lot of my clients to have access to capital. So when you've got investors when you've got capital when you've got when you're being given a business that already exists you've already got.

41:58.90

Jenn

On.

42:00.79

kitedart

Your basic needs met which leaves a lot of opportunity for um, Okay, what do I want to do with it. You know? And so yeah, you do And so honestly I I mean there's part of me like when when I think about the work I do with people what I.

42:07.83

Jenn

Yeah, you get more choices.

42:19.65

kitedart

What I want to do with my clients who are my new clients or or even the ones who've been in business several years who still aren't making enough is I want them to stabilize their initial revenue stream and I want to get their business to a place of workable.

42:29.12

Jenn

Um, yeah. Yeah.

42:36.21

kitedart

Because then they get more creativity. They get more space they get more time they get right? So how I how I have them go about it is by using an inside out approach because the outside in approach doesn't work.

42:52.77

Jenn

Um, this.

42:55.51

kitedart

Outside in approach is full of Shoulds False equivalencies and it's it's Overwhelming. It's hard to make decisions. Ah, it's floundering and when we come from the inside out that gives us I Believe the. Best shot at stabilizing the revenue stream getting things workable so that we can continue to grow and be more creative and do more from there. So. It's not exactly an answer to your question but I I think the hierarchy is.

43:27.11

Jenn

Um, yeah.

43:33.38

Jenn

Yeah, absolutely I'm gonna be thinking about this the rest of the day. but yeah but I think so kind of looking at like what you're good at and what you love to do 1 thing that.

43:33.89

kitedart

Probably kind of similar to as clothes I'm enough to think about it too I have to go like look it up really specifically and be like ha is that is it different or is it not I don't know.

43:51.31

Jenn

My husband identified pretty early on is that like he's good at growing existing businesses. He and and that's the space that he's played in so the businesses that he's bought is our existing businesses and that's also something that I think gets overlooked by. Um, people who want to own their own businesses is there None buying a business so buying an existing business. You talked about kind of the businesses that get handed down by generations. Well some generations don't want the business and so there are a lot of businesses harvard business review idea cast. Did a podcast episode years ago around the fastest way to become a Ceo is to buy an existing business. What's super cool is that I think there's a barrier that people have of buying existing businesses that they think that they need a ton of capital to purchase a business and yes.

44:33.69

kitedart

Yeah.

44:45.40

kitedart

I had.

44:48.61

Jenn

Capital I think is is at the bottom of of the hierarchy of need or at least a level of capital and then more capital probably goes to the top. Um, but there is stuff like seller financing that current business owners are willing to do with new business owners. Also we worked with the sba so we got approved for an Sba loan to buy the restaurant that we bought and working with the Sba had been has been a great experience for us. Um, one thing that they recommended that we do is to take out a loan that was $50000 more than. We quote unquote needed because they wanted us to have enough working capital and I'm grateful that they did because in the first eight months of owning that restaurant. We lost $40000 and so there are ways you know don't put up the barriers. But that you don't have access to these things if you haven't built up your financial literacy and explored options and had the right conversations with the right people I know um the Denver office of economic growth. I forget what they are but when I met the man who represented them at an event I was at he's like we're Denver's best kept secret and I'm like that's the problem like there are all these small business owners that like need these resources and and there's governments that are providing those resources but they're not great at marketing.

46:10.85

kitedart

Yeah you I.

46:22.14

Jenn

Or finding the right people I think there's so many different organizations that I found um Rocky Mountain Microfinance Institute Score. There's a lot of resources out there that might not be marketed to you but can really help you if if business ownership is.

46:29.54

kitedart

Now.

46:41.49

Jenn

Is one of your goals and 1 of your past to building wealth. Um, and yeah and it's all so interesting to me that like we we will put up these barriers of like and if we have a barrier that business owners are extractors.

46:58.51

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

47:01.11

Jenn

Don't want to be a business owner because I don't want to be an extractor but when we owned our restaurant we we didn't have a traditional. We didn't have a structured profit sharing model but we did when we made a profit we shared that with our employees so we gave out monthly bonuses and. You know, found different ways to support our employees in the ways that were unique and needed for them so we sent one of our employees to a two day cooking culinary class where he learned he improved his knife skills and that was incredibly valuable to us. We. Gave our kitchen manager airpods because she was always the none in cleaning and for her to have airpods to listen to while she is doing her responsibilities like that was valuable to her so finding people's currency and and setting them up to. To go up on Masla's hierarchy of needs so that what was incredible with with the process of owning the restaurant is that we took care of our employees when the times were good and then when covid hit we none of our employees quit. We didn't lose any employees because they knew like we were in this together. They.

48:10.42

kitedart

Um, yeah.

48:15.24

Jenn

They took ownership of our business much like we did and they cared for it and they cared for our customers and and treated the business with respect and and my partner and I said like our job is to take care of our employees. Our employees take care of the customers. The customers take care of the business business takes care of the employees like. So our responsibility was always how do we set our employees up for success and sometimes that was getting them a hotel room for the night or giving them ah an advance so that they could get their car fixed. You know, whatever it is and to treat individuals like individuals. Certainly at the core of my values because it's not a one size fits all it's not everybody gets an advance on their paycheck because we're fair and Equal. We're not fair and equal we got to give people what they individually need.

49:05.62

kitedart

Yeah, so True. So true and it's so funny because it just feels like this isn't a hard concept to get but the you know I mean ah the way the way are. Economy works the way business works the way our systems work are so rooted in just the industrial revolution. So. It's like we've got the people at the top telling everybody else. What to do? They're making more money they're not, they're you know they don't have power. They don't have agency. They don't feel cared for.. They don't feel. Seen They don't you know they don't feel heard like all of those things um, are are kind of the status quo that that we've had and so many companies still ah persist with and it doesn't so you know to me, it's like I'm like this is not Rocket Science folks This is like. You know, yeah treat people with care and concern and support and see them as humans and individuals and um it isn't about equality. It's about equity right? and I mean equality is great and equity's better.

50:10.21

Jenn

Okay.

50:17.94

kitedart

And inclusions better and belongings better and Justice is better and so um, yeah, and ah, go ahead. There was something else. You said that I was in comment on.

50:26.59

Jenn

I I think there's like there's this misnomer of like how to win a business make more money than you spend how to win financially how to build wealth make more money than you spend and that is that's a personal finance quote that is some.

50:35.12

kitedart

Yeah.

50:43.59

Jenn

Loud and proud is is you want your income to be greater than your expenses. But I think the nuance of that is how much greater and at what cost because my partner and I we talk a lot about our time money and energy is 3 equal resources that we have and.

50:51.20

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

51:02.64

Jenn

And this is a hard one for me too of like buying time so having somebody come clean. Our house is a stressor for me because I'm like well I could do it at the end of the day and I could do it. You know I could give up my Saturday and but it's like wait. No, that's holistically not the life that we want. If I can use the time that I would spend cleaning to have quality time with my partner to work on businesses that I'm passionate and that I care about then I don't need to spend the time cleaning and there's some really awesome cleaning companies. And I'm supporting a small locally owned business while I'm doing that or you know for us buying time when we had the restaurant was paying our employees more because when they were supported and they were looking at the business more they weren't just punching the clock.

51:53.17

kitedart

Right.

51:54.61

Jenn

Because they weren't minimum wage workers. They weren't constantly thinking. Oh I can make an extra dollar if I went next door they weren't they were focused on our business instead of focused on how to get more because their needs weren't being met and so I think like when you look at the equation of like yes as business owners or as. Individuals How to how to build wealth. Yes, make more money than you earn. But when you're shortsighted and trying to make that number as large as Possible. You Miss kind of the value of time and energy and taking care of people. I Think it again. It comes back to what is enough.

52:33.30

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, um I it's kind of funny that you even bring up the cleaning because that's like 1 thing right? like 1 thing we do. We definitely help earlier businesses get launched or you know those who are you know 2 to 5 years in who are like this isn't working I need help right? like but we also help.

52:51.47

Jenn

Yeah.

52:51.98

kitedart

People scale and and it's so interesting because I've got plenty of clients who are like I want to scale but I don't want employees and part of it has to do with the exploitative nature of employment. Not always and sometimes right. So it's like plenty of times but you know it's It's um.

52:56.14

Jenn

Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah.

53:10.90

kitedart

Again, It's not clear cut and but they're like I don't want employees I don't want to manage them I don't you know, but it is like okay how can you scale your business and that it can have to do with your whole life. It's not business isn't separate from the rest of life and so it's.

53:25.50

Jenn

Um, yeah, yeah.

53:29.35

kitedart

Like part of how you can scale could be that you're hiring someone to clean your house or you're hiring someone for meal prep or you're hiring someone for whatever of yard work or whatever other thing to free up your time for you know you still need self-care time and recreation time entertainment and fun. And you can go make more money doing something you love to do if you love to do what you're doing in your business right? Which is what we hope for. So I Love that you bring that up and and I also wanted to pull out too. I Appreciate the point about like not automatically assuming just because you know.

53:56.32

Jenn

Um, yeah.

54:07.95

kitedart

You don't have a certain identity or have you know a rich daddy so to speak that you can't get capital for your business because I volunteer for rocky mountain microfinance institute and you know they definitely have things Colorado lending source which I think their name has changed I don't know what it is.

54:21.17

Jenn

Yeah, yes, they've divided into 2 But if you search colorado lendings horse you'll still find them.

54:25.72

kitedart

Um, yeah, you'll find them so you know and and dido and Sba and so sbdc there's there's a lot of different supports out there and there's I've seen grants and there's a lot of things. So I think that it's really important to know that and um. And I agree with that. Um I think too there was another I lost it and yeah can I have you talk about this one last thing because I thought this was interesting. Um.

54:50.18

Jenn

So much to talk about. We could just keep going on for so long.

55:02.50

kitedart

You shared with me about how you have repeatedly gotten the question about whether the pledge Ats is a nonprofit. We talk about that a little bit. It is.

55:11.39

Jenn

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Um, yeah because I think there is I think none and foremost nonprofit is a tax status. It is a type of business structure that you. Have extra responsibility but you also get extra benefit from and so um, you know you don't you there are a lot of different choices. None right now is is a b corp which is kind of becoming a bit more popular but you can have a mission-driven business. It's a for profit business. And my business. The Pledgettes is a for profit business. We have not elected a nonprofit status I don't know if we will in the future. But um, it's I like how I like having a for profit mission driven organization and and some of the choices in that is that if i. Did have the nonprofit route I would be required to have a board and sometimes with boards it goes back to the conversation that we were having of like the strings attached of like oh I'll sit on your board. But I really want you to focus on high school students and financial literacy for high school students. Well, The Pledgettes isn't created for high school students and there's other resources for financial literacy for high school students and then like my mission is getting blurred or I'm getting a lot more squirrels from the board. All could be very well intentioned. But also it would be. Ah, distraction in in some senses. There's a lot of reporting that needs to go on and and I'm fine being transparent about the finances of the business I I have yet to take money out of the business for myself. It gets reinvested into the independent contractors that we have um. But I think there is like this this myth that women should have nonprofits because historically women do start nonprofits. Um and that we should start a business out of altruism and for the betterment of community. And I do think that businesses should exist for the betterment of community but it doesn't need to be the number None factor and so I think there's there's just this strange question with it.

57:35.74

kitedart

Yeah, so true. So true it is funny I mean there's so many reasons not to be a nonprofit I Yeah I mean you touched on a bunch of them. We thought about for kit and dart. We thought about starting and a nonprofit arm because we really wanted to.

57:42.63

Jenn

Of. Keep that.

57:51.81

kitedart

During the first year of the ko shutdown we did name your price pricing for all Bipac and ltpq clients and we loved being able to do that and and part of that came from a commitment of like making reparations and but and kind of getting curious around what would it look like for our business to make reparations and.

57:55.92

Jenn

Yes.

58:10.26

kitedart

We're still unclear about to what extent does a multiracial person need to make reparations I have no idea. But um, but you know Nate as a white man wanted to do that and so but then it was like okay this isn't sustainable. How can we? um you know doesn't make sense to start a nonprofit and.

58:14.40

Jenn

Um.

58:27.69

Jenn

Right.

58:30.13

kitedart

We talked about it and then I was like oh my all of the things that you just laid out like no, it's just so much work. We can have other ways that we can make this difference but it has to be workable for us. So I think that that's so true The board I've got clients who are nonprofits.

58:33.81

Jenn

Yeah, yeah.

58:41.58

Jenn

Right.

58:48.60

kitedart

Who started nonprofits who sometimes I'm like maybe you want to shut down the nonprofit and be a for profit because it's less complicated. Um and it did it just depends on what you're trying to do. But I think that this idea that.

58:53.95

Jenn

Bright.

59:05.96

kitedart

Particularly as women were supposed to just be serving and doing good and that it should be altruistic and we don't need to make a profit as a croc. So yeah, yep, yeah.

59:11.47

Jenn

Yeah, and it goes to that either or of like I can do good and make money and and honestly like there's nobody that should just do free labor again I mean that we could talk about free labor for.

59:27.93

kitedart

You know.

59:29.96

Jenn

Ah, long time but like just because I haven't taken money out of the business yet because again these work communities work better at scale one. That's a privilege that I have to have a business that I don't need to take money out to cover my monthly expenses. Um, but also.

59:41.52

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

59:49.75

Jenn

It's ah oh shoot totally lost my thought as I got new thoughts of that all of this but it doesn't have to be an either or of like do good or be for profit. It can be both and you can find ways to do good in your business and talk about it and commit to it. Um.

59:54.25

kitedart

Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:09.38

Jenn

Without the extra layers. But yeah, we get all these choices as business owners and I think that's that's really what the best thing is.

01:00:12.23

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm going to argue and this will actually take me to my next question for you. But I'm going to argue that to me. It's like it's part of my activism is humanizing business. Right? And so not only can I be a for- profit business and do good and make a positive impact and work towards Justice and work towards equity and work towards the things that I care About. Um. But that the way I'm running my business if I'm running it from a humanized context I'm changing the landscape of what it means to do business and if enough of us small businesses are doing this someday right. That's going to be the norm for how business is done right? and and there's probably more businesses who are operating from a humanized context but big business is not and there's so they're so powerful right? So and there's plenty small ones probably who don't either but like.

01:01:15.10

Jenn

Yeah.

01:01:20.36

kitedart

You know there I do believe that there's so many business owners out there who are really trying to create positive impact in their community and and the more we can operate from a humanized context. We're going to change the narrative on what it means to be a business owner. So.

01:01:33.45

Jenn

Totally and that's I think that's how it works is that we get enough people who have shared values and shared goals and and then it's like a ah David and Goliath story you know? and and I think the kind of the last thing on that.

01:01:46.84

kitedart

Um, yeah.

01:01:53.50

Jenn

Note is that we don't live in a true capitalist society and I think that's important to remember so when people are touting like but capitalism is why Amazon can underprice every small business. It's like yeah, but it. Amazon has also gotten the benefit of paying 0 taxes because of the way they run their business financials in several different ways that a small business doesn't have access to either the specialists who can help with tax strategy in a business or. Capital because you know the self-made man of Jeff Bezos also got I think it was like a $ 300000 loan from his parents so came from ah a place of privilege and and and I think that'll be that this will be kind of the last thing I say on capitalism and stuff is that. And toxic narratives is that the idea of the self-made man the self-made man is a fallacy I am a community made woman there I came from I received privileges from where I was born. How I showed up in this world who I am.

01:02:59.70

kitedart

Here I have.

01:03:07.65

Jenn

Um, the people who have mentored me who have taken risks on me my different customers and clients throughout life. Ah, the people who've I've just had right place right? time money conversations with have all influenced me. To become a community-made woman and I think the story of the self-made man of you know the ultra billionaires love to tell this story of like Jeff Bezos started Amazon from his garage. Yeah, but with a $ 300000 loan and so when people are saying I don't get I don't get access to capital and. He did get capital from his parents. You know it's you're leaving out some very important details in the self-made story of and also like why are your parents in the shadows like I would be thrilled and screaming from the rooftops if my parents. Had the ability to put $300000 into my business and chose to do use their money in that way and so I think let's be grateful for the privilege that we have and use the opportunities that we have I don't think privilege is a bad thing. But I think. I think the extremes and the division of and the widening wealth gap is the issue.

01:04:23.79

kitedart

Yeah, so true. So true. So with that I'd love to ask Will you share what entrepreneurial activism means to you.

01:04:35.15

Jenn

Oh ha.

01:04:42.73

Jenn

That's interesting because I I don't frequently use the word advocate or activist in my identity. But I I love to use the word champion I'm a champion for.

01:04:52.77

kitedart

Um, down.

01:04:59.52

Jenn

Values drivenven women using their money in ways that align with their values and their goals and so and by doing that I get to use my money in alignment with my values and goals and I get to celebrate and champion other people doing the same and I hope that. Those who are listening to this conversation are thinking about ways that they can use their money in alignment with their values and their goals. Um to me I believe that my responsibility as an activist entrepreneur is to share different ideas and perspectives. And Embolden people to take an active role in their finances and without judgment of of what their values and their goals are and and I know by doing that that there could be somebody who wants to. Extract labor or assets or whatever that come in and learn something from the pledgettes and I guess that's their karma maybe ah having more money will amplify their greed. But for the majority I don't think any greedy person is showing up to. Pledgettes being like this is my community. These are my people.

01:06:16.80

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, I think I mean even coming on here today and having this conversation right? like the the things that were putting out into the world affect um who comes into our communities and um. People I think people are quite discerning and are always looking for that alignment whether they're naming that or not so I think it's probably pretty fair to say but doesn't mean it can happen. Um, no thank you for sharing that? Um, the last thing I'd love to ask Jenn is just will you share.

01:06:40.41

Jenn

Um, yeah. Right.

01:06:54.80

kitedart

I'll put it in the show notes but will you share with listeners how they can connect with you get in touch with you learn more about you and the work you're doing.

01:06:59.44

Jenn

Yes, definitely visit. Http://thepledgeettes.com that is our website you can learn about becoming a member you can check out our events to attend an event. You can also contact me I Love to have healthy wealthy money conversations. Um. Um, a big connector. So If you're looking for a values aligned business coach or financial advisor or financial therapist or accredited financial counselor or Banker or so on and so on and so on of all the people that could be on your financial. A team. Let's Chat. Um. If. There are some money blocks or money narratives that you are ready to let go of the Pledge Ats as a community that is a place that will encourage and support you in doing that and yeah I Just love talking about money and helping people evolve their relationship with it.

01:07:50.81

kitedart

Great. Well thank you so much. Thanks for sharing with us today and it's always great to talk with you Jenn.

01:07:59.15

Jenn

Likewise thanks Karen thanks to all that are listening.