Now & Center: Entrepreneurial Voices from the Margin

Sustainability, Inclusive Community, and Power with Becky Migas, Founder of Women in Sustainability

September 20, 2022 Karen Bartlett Episode 22
Now & Center: Entrepreneurial Voices from the Margin
Sustainability, Inclusive Community, and Power with Becky Migas, Founder of Women in Sustainability
Show Notes Transcript

Episode Description:  

Karen talks with Becky Migas, Founder of Women in Sustainability, about the interconnectedness of the environmental and health care crises, and the impacts of racism and sexism on both issues.  They discuss the value of community, the high level of burnout in those doing environmental work, and the power of taking space and time to be intentional.  They examine the various facets of work to do to create more diverse and inclusive spaces, including the internal, interpersonal, community, and systemic work, as well as the role of power in doing this.

Links:

Schedule an Exploratory Call with Karen: https://calendly.com/karenbartlett/30min

Learn more about Kite + Dart Group:  www.kiteanddartgroup.com

Register for an upcoming event:  https://www.eventbrite.com/o/the-kite-dart-group-16435043586

Connect with Becky Migas:  mailto:becky@womeninsustainability.org

Learn more about Women in Sustainability:  https://womeninsustainability.org/

Connect with Carin Huebner at Public Good Media:  publicgood.media

Original music credit goes to DJ Ishe:  https://soundcloud.com/ishe


Check out the Tema Okun website and article on white supremacy culture:  https://www.whitesupremacyculture.info/characteristics.html

00:00.00

kitedart

Hello everybody and welcome to today's session of Now & Center I am here today with someone I'm super excited for this conversation. All of our conversations are very juicy and rich. So I'm with Becky Migas who is the founder of Women in Sustainability. Becky welcome to Now & Center.


00:16.78

Becky Migas

Thank you Karen thank you so much for having me today I'm so thrilled to be here and yes, have um, continued juicy conversations.


00:26.22

kitedart

Yeah, as we were getting settled in here today. We kind of started off with our Conversation. We're like wait hold up, let's pause and let's get this conversation recorded. So ah, it's It's I know it's gonna be great for the listeners and I know I will enjoy it Thoroughly. So Thank you?? um. I Would love to just start out with you sharing with the listeners about Women in Sustainability. Um, you know, just kind of giving us an overview of of what your organization does and I know the difference that you're making in the world.


00:57.84

Becky Migas

Yeah, thank you for that opportunity. So we launched Women in Sustainability in 2019 as a social meetup group. It was a way for community to come together for people who were working in sustainable practices and the majority of those people are women. Who are really pushing the work forward in sustainability and so we came together and had an opportunity to connect and afterwards people wanted to continue that community building and so we launched a Facebook group that is now None and growing every day which is incredible. And we also are now a nonprofit organization we received our nonprofit license at the end of 2021 so we are a startup nonprofit. Very excited to be in this space and we our mission is about caring for the people that care for the planet. Through community advocacy resources and education and really focusing on that through the feminist viewpoint and feminist leadership and while you know we do say women. We have an incredible community of also men. And anybody who associates as non-binary so everybody truly is welcome into our space and the idea is we want to create an inclusive and safe space and that's how we're going to create change to drive forward and so we've seen so many environmental nonprofits in the past really exclude marginalized voices. Includee women's voices and so really, that is where we are right now is we want to change that status quo of the environmental movement to ensure that we're bringing all voices forward and that everybody is not just a part of our community. How you know we talk. Karen and I talked a little bit about tokenism right before we got on this call I'm sure that I'll come up but not just that they're part of our community but voices are truly heard and a part of the work that we are doing to create a better future for sustainability and social issues as well.


03:01.34

kitedart

Yeah I love that and you know as you were sharing that Becky. It just had me thinking about how it it is um, funny, not funny haha but like funny sad and and ironic but just that that the. So much of the environmental movement has been spearheaded by white men which is as usual and there's just so much around patriarchy and capitalist systems and and things like that that just that that extractive nature. The. Um, you know that I'm not trying to say that it's just been all white men who've caused the problem with the environment but it's like the the patriarchy the capitalism these things have absolutely very much contributed to the mess that we're in when it comes to sustainability. And I do feel like women bipac like different people with different identities who are operating in a different context are are going to be so much more well equipped probably to actually. Move the needle in a way that's not continuing to reinforce a lot of the systems that have got us gotten us here. You know.


04:23.18

Becky Migas

Yeah, definitely it's I mean the the patriarchal capitalist Society has definitely put us into this position and has and has fueled it right? And that's.


04:36.60

Becky Migas

I use that word fuel because a lot of it goes to oil and gas and how we continue to still support our oil and gas. But how we have fueled this this abuse of the environment that we live in and women in general are. Nurtures and they're attached to nature and we tend to connect more with our our nature values and so I think women have a really unique advantage in that space and with Bipoc it is the bipoc community that is being used by these capitalistic and patriarchal systems. There are low-income communities that are having to deal with the worst air quality that exists in the United States and other countries as well. You know we can talk on a global scale about what's happening but to keep it kind a little bit more localized like. You know marginal lines communities are dealing with the trash. They're dealing with that air quality and they're getting the the abuse of the system and so it is really important to bring those voices to be a part of that change in that conversation because they know the direct effects of what's happening better than anybody else.


05:50.70

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, oh so so true gosh and then I just think too about how that all snowballs to right thinking about you know particularly say Bipac and um the health effects.


06:01.13

Becky Migas

Ah.


06:07.99

kitedart

That those things have and then you look at the way that that the medical system the the health care system excuse me the Healthcare care system is totally racist and classist and I mean and it and so not only are they impacted more. From exposure and those kinds of things but then the the health problems that it causes they can't even get the same health care like it's just such a big tangle.


06:38.63

Becky Migas

It's it's all interconnected and that's where we don't understand that issue and I'm kind of sitting here smiling and giggling a little because I am actually the book there's a book that I had mentioned it's called every 90 minutes Ian is written by a local denver university professor and it is about sexual trauma and abuse and violence in our country and um, so Anda Prince is the the professor's name and it she goes into history and talks. About a lot of history of how we got here and it really is there was a point in time in history in the even the eighteen hundreds that we stops listening to women and women of color when it came to. Their physical bodies and issues that they were experiencing and problems. Theyre bearing and that we actually created this whole hysteria around that time and that's how we still are today right? We created these systems that we still live in today where women's issues and women's body's issues are not being taken serious. So. Um, my partner and I just talked about andremi ender beci oosis I can't say that word butpologies but we did think that's still a very unknown diagnosis in women but many women experience that issue and when it comes.


08:01.90

kitedart

Um, yeah.


08:03.61

Becky Migas

Bipo community there's so many health issues there's articles on the news today about Maternal Health and how women of color are dying at extreme rates because we aren't able to handle you know maternity issues for women of color and it just I think to myself we're in 2022 right like


08:22.70

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah.


08:22.86

Becky Migas

I Have to ask myself that question because why are we still here. But yes, our systems have not changed to set up for communities of color to be able to hack access good healthcare and to understand what is happening with that. Correlation of the bad air quality and the water that we're drinking in in all these environmental issues that are happening and linking to the health issues of people in our society and so it's just unbelievable to me that we that we aren't making those connections and.


08:54.44

kitedart

1


09:00.62

Becky Migas

We have to we have to start connecting the dots of how everything is interconnected. 1 piece isn't separate from another.


09:05.16

kitedart

Yeah, ah, well then I even think about just you know it's not even just the system too right? and and you know our health care system is not set up to support women of color people of color ah women. Like so many different things but then even just the implicit bias that that comes in right and and you know there've been so many studies about even the treatment that um, a person of color will get from a white doctor and there's it. There's so much. Oh, there's so much there like and I know that. That may not be all, we want to talk about today but it's it is. It's like there's this macro level and then there's this you know also interpersonal level that's reinforced by a racist sexist society and and and capitalist right? like let's not pretend like capitalism doesn't enter into health care like hello. So it's yeah, it's so much. Yeah, yeah, ah ah yes


10:01.91

Becky Migas

Yeah, yeah, ah, yeah, we we we could talk about 5 hours on that one I've got lots of stories I could tell there. But yes, yes, yeah, and I mean and then it's not just the health care system like we can't get for for the bipoc communities that have like. Flint michigan for example, right? like we were all made aware that their water issues existed years ago and they're still having issues of access to clean drinking water a basic human need. We all cannot live without drinking water water is is necessary for life and yet we. Still have communities all over our country that can't access clean drinking water and instead what we're doing is breaking down laws. You know legislation and saying oh corporations just can go and pollute the water. It's all cool. We don't need to worry about it. People don't really need to drink water like.


10:44.61

kitedart

Um I had.


10:59.70

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.


11:00.00

Becky Migas

Like like basic human needs here are not being met still and that's what's crazy to think is that you know we have all these systems that are broken and they all again connect together.


11:10.91

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, we have got our work cut out for us. So oh my gosh It's I know was like so much so much I um.


11:16.70

Becky Migas

Ah, deep breath everybody take a pause everybody deep breath.


11:24.67

Becky Migas

Yes.


11:28.41

kitedart

Gosh it is just so much I I really appreciate the work that you're doing though and I um I'm a part of your community. Although I don't end up being able to do a whole lot of the the activities with you all it was great. We did our co-event with. With Women in Sustainability kit and dar and crafty chasity that was super fun. But I really do appreciate. You know the work that you're doing and you know I'm I'm always following along and just seeing the range of um. Range of offerings that you have right in terms of educating people and bringing in voices and and so I I just want to thank you and and I'm also gonna say right as the business consultant I'm also gonna say I'm so like congrats on getting the None o one c three and I'm so glad that you monetized and I think that. You know we met I think in very early covid I don't know exactly when but um, early in the covid shutdown and have our paths have crossed I don't even know how many times since then but you know I think I told you all along from an early time when we none met of like you need to monetize this like and. You know and and not that it's all about money but that it's about the impact that you can have right and that by monetizing Women in Sustainability and creating. Ah you know a none and a paid membership organization. Um, the impact that you're going to be able to have is. Is even bigger. So I just want to you know, kind of give you a shout out on that one? Um, yeah.


12:59.57

Becky Migas

Thank you It's hard right? like it's hard to think is it. You know is this some things that we should monetize and it's you know if for me, this space started off as just a fun thing to do you know I was doing my own business. When I started this I had left a full time job and I was just really trying to create my own community and trying to decide what my future looks like and it was a happy little accident. It's kind of a Bob Ross little thing right? like just hey painted this pappy little tree in there and it's just.


13:29.74

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.


13:38.40

Becky Migas

For me has been an overwhelmingly positive experience in my life I have never felt so much joy in Love you know I think it was I needed this community and I didn't recognize how many people were out there that also needed it and so to be able to bring. Community together and to see people and how they connect and how they collaborate there's been so many cool stories that have come out of this organization of businesses starting and different events happening and people supporting each other and. And I get phone calls sometimes of people who said hey I got a job because of you or sometimes I get phone calls of you know I know this person because of this community and so. It really isn't just me. It's the community that makes the community and I just feel so special that I get to be such a large part of it and then you know it's just it just makes me happy a community really is I think our future I mean I you know being a part of Kite + Dart is the same right? like it has joining your. Events during Covid helped really get through Covid and I've met so many great people through Kite + Dart and I think Community is so valuable So important we learned that more than ever in those first days of Covid and throughout that entire that entire time of quarantine. And we are seeing it more now as especially in the work we do if we're going to drive change forward. It's not going to be us as individuals. It's gonna be us as community and so I think that it's been just a really.


15:08.10

kitedart

And.


15:16.24

Becky Migas

Exciting moment in life and really exciting that people want to be a part of it and to do the work that we do and to be able to monetize it and see that there's value to it is really exciting and to continue to do that work in bringing people together and creating education because we need that education. About what's happening and how these pieces connect together and you know I think I get from a lot of our community members of we want to continue to do this work but we're Tired. We don't want to do it. We don't want to do it like we're running our Businesses. We don't want to find the resources. We don't want to have to find the education or give the education and so that they know they have a place that they can come or that. Is already being done and it can have value and not just the connections of likeminded people but having access to resources and education and not having to waste their precious precious time and energy and capacity. So It really is that sharing commodity of of of time and.


16:13.11

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, it So is yeah and and I think that that's important right? that it's It's not monetizing just for money. You know it's not money just for money's sake but you are providing a real service and I do think the community part of it is super important.


16:13.84

Becky Migas

Face together.


16:30.18

kitedart

As are all of the other things and the the education and the resources and all of those things. Um and and and it's also right and I think that this is kind of important to pull out in the context of this conversation too is that like. It started as a passion project and maybe you would have continued it forever as a passion project but also the fact like for you to get paid because your time is valuable your energy is valuable I know for a fact you put so much into this community and you know it's not fair. Women should not have to. Work for free Bipac folks should not have to work for free like so this is also the other thing and I'm not saying that people shouldn't volunteer if they want to and you're doing some really important work and and you deserve to get paid for it and so. Ah, and and that again is how you're going to have that bigger impact. So um, that was why from a very like from very early conversations I'm like okay Becky you've got it like you got to monetize this maybe because you've got something and and it's in the fact that it just happened is.


17:40.58

Becky Migas

Here.


17:40.87

kitedart

Like to me that's alignment right? like I talk alignment all day long. That's what I do with my clients is alignment alignment alignment alignment and the fact that it happens So naturally um is just that proof of that alignment and um, yeah, you're you're just.


17:53.48

Becky Migas

Yes.


17:59.48

kitedart

Very well aligned and positioned to have it work off of your passions and your strengths and your commitment. So I think that's just the coolest freaking thing when it happens like that.


18:10.69

Becky Migas

It is magic when the universe puts it in front of you. It's it's it's magic. There's no death. There's no denying that and again feel very fortunate and grateful for those opportunities and grateful for people like you in my life who did say things to me like that you know I think that there.


18:18.56

kitedart

Yeah.


18:29.38

Becky Migas

Those moments where I was like oh just keep doing this for free and it was the very much you know friends and people who saw the work that was happening and saw the value who are like no like there's there's something here and this is important you need to do it but you can't do it because you're gonna burn yourself out and that's such. You know? Yes, we always need to think about money. But then there's this real burnout piece of environmentalism and climate and sustainability. There's this real fact that people just push so hard because they just want to create such a better world in a better future that we forget to. Stop and take care of ourselves and you know while it was fun for me to do all these events and it was great to bring community together. There are those times where it's like well I have to still pay my bills I still have to put food on my table I still have to take care of my family. I deserve a vacation just like everybody else, right? and I think we sometimes get so caught up in the work that we do as passion projects and the love for that in that in that space and I think we forget to stop and take to step back and take care of ourselves especially as women. Right? Like women are not good at saying I need to take care of myself today I'm not taking care of everybody else and so you know I think it's really important to have people in your life who.


19:44.64

kitedart

That.


19:57.23

Becky Migas

Say what? you're doing is valuable. You need to take care of yourself. You need to make sure that you're financially taken care of that. You're self-care that you're taking time off that you're taking moments to breathe and so it's it's finding you know all the care and Bartletts in the world to be there to support. You is really important.


20:15.45

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's been an honor I Yeah I don't know that I really did that much but you know just definitely have believed in you and what you're doing and um.


20:16.22

Becky Migas

In life.


20:21.63

Becky Migas

The.


20:29.13

kitedart

I'm I'm thinking just even with what you're bringing up around this I'd love to kind of segue into thinking about or having you share with us about what because as much as it's sort of morphed Very organically.. It's also a ton of work and I know that So what have been some of your bigger challenges along the way in starting this organization.


20:51.20

Becky Migas

Yeah that's a great question and it's you know at none it was just hey we're just gonna do these events. We're gonna do them for fun and when we do switch to that paid space. You now realize that it is your accountable. For the work that you're doing and the actions that you're doing so we are a paid membership organization. We do believe in keeping our membership flow but you know it is I think ensuring that we truly stay to what we built this community for and that's being community driven. And so ensuring that we're bringing in diverse voices ensuring that we're representing and listening to diverse voices ensuring that the work that we do represents what we stand for in our mission and. You know I think that there are lots of opportunities. But I think that there are lots of challenges to that the bigger we grow the more that becomes challenging because we are responsible for ah you know listening to a lot of community members. We really want our community members. Feel that they have value and so ensuring that we're able to listen to them but still be able to drive the organization forward. Be able to get funding from foundations and from donors and being able to create good programming that fits for everybody and. Ensuring that we're collaborating with the right organizations that are out there and you know at the end of the day. It's me you know, right now I am the only person doing this work and so you know I think going back to that burnout piece doing all of this but also ensuring that I'm taking care of myself and. And they do have a wonderful board. Um, you know we have a board that of 4 right now working I'm sorry we just added a fifth so board of 5 and we are working our way to board of 7 budy end this year and we hand pickedcked our board and it's just been really incredible to have a board that really is engaged. And excited about the work and being able to support me but at the end of the day it is their volunteer position as well. So you know they only have so expect so many hours out of their week to be able to support the work that I'm doing so you know I think it's just a lot It's a lot of ensuring that we're doing the work driving the mission forward where. Supporting our community in every way possible and we're supporting our team our board and making sure that we can continue to do this work and all those pieces to be able to get money at the end of the day.


23:28.79

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, None thing I'm I'm hearing and and kind of reflecting on as you talk is is right? How important it is to you to stay very true to your mission and um. Of course I mean you know that's all I'm ever doing like for profit nonprofit. Whoever I'm working with I'm like that's the why is always the everything and and I do know how like we've had enough conversations that I know how intentional you are about constantly. Returning to that. Um, and not just like in in every way right? like in in the big ways and in the little ways and I really appreciate that and and I I feel like there's that that you always bring a curiosity to. How can I make sure I'm staying true to this and how can we do even better and so I I think that that's you know that's really great and and and how cool that you know to start this organization in a time where um, there's I think there's. So much awareness around how organizations run and some of the problems that have been inherently built into nonprofits with white saviorism and with like paternalism I guess would be the the word I'm looking for there that that there's so much of that and that you're like I feel like.


24:52.82

Becky Migas

Yes.


24:58.57

Becky Migas

Um, turn.


25:05.61

kitedart

You've always seemed very questioning of yourself and the organization and how you're doing things to make sure that you're really, um, doing the best that you can to stay true to that.


25:16.45

Becky Migas

Thank you for that I appreciate those kind words and and it's interesting because sometimes I always have this joke of the best ideas come to me at 3 in the morning but I never know which 3 in the morning that's going to be and so so.


25:27.79

kitedart

Yeah.


25:32.29

Becky Migas

So sometimes I'll have an idea but I love like it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel comfortable and I'll talk to the board and I'll kind of play it out. You know I'll talk to my my partner my very fortunate that I have a partner that he is very supportive of my work and willing to be a sounding board to me every day. Um.


25:47.55

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.


25:49.94

Becky Migas

Ah, very fortunate for that because I talk his ear off almost every day and you know it's I sometimes have to talk it through a lot and I just sit and think about it. So sometimes this idea and and I think even you know you had mentioned the event we had did together. We even did that right? We had None idea when we originally spoke about here's what we wanted to do and that morphed into so many different things and we both were like we got to get to the point we both feel right about it and I think sometimes it's okay to say to not push things through to have to be done immediately It's okay to say it'll come to me when it comes to me and it's going to happen when it's meant to happen because I think when we don't just take those times to reflect and sit and let it just manifest in our brains and our heart and our guts that we just create these things that don't feel right? and.


26:30.66

kitedart

Yeah.


26:45.67

Becky Migas

Not comfortable for anybody and when we create that space to take time we can then start to create space that is welcoming and safe for everybody and so I think that you know the biggest thing is time taking that time and and they're just frustrating for me too. As somebody who has been taught just do it down to get it done.


26:52.42

kitedart

Money now.


27:03.47

kitedart

And.


27:05.21

Becky Migas

To take to learn myself and teach myself that it's okay, if it's not done today even like I want to be announcing all of our follow events next Monday before I go on vacation that's not going to happen and I reminded myself the last 48 hours that it's okay I don't really need to have my December holiday event announced in.


27:23.92

kitedart

Yeah, you might get people cry I need to think not the holidays I'm like now now no sounds kind of lovely right now as it wave but like no, but.


27:24.94

Becky Migas

In July no one's going to care right? like no one's going to care right and so reminding myself that that that and that perfectionism right? like and that goes ties to that like society that has been built that we have to live in this perfect society and everything has to be done perfect and and all this I have a lot of myself those mistakes and that if it gets up.


27:43.79

kitedart

Um, yeah. And life.


28:00.16

Becky Migas

Partially gets it partially and then we'll we'll add it and fix it and that's okay, right? like but I think that makes us all real and human and that is okay and yeah, yeah, it's It's so so thank you for that cause I Sometimes forget that that that's something that we do but it's it's. I have had to teach myself to do that too.


28:20.18

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, it's so funny as you were sharing that that it it had me thinking about the teamo Okoonn characteristics of white supremacist culture I don't know exactly the name of it but characteristics of white supremacy I don't know if you know that? Okay well I'll share it with you but it's a great document I learned about it.


28:26.26

Becky Migas

Are.


28:32.93

Becky Migas

Um, please do.


28:40.17

kitedart

Um, from Jenny Madrono at building bridges and back in back in like 2018 I think um, when Nate and I started doing work with building bridges and really learning a lot from Jenny Madrano over there as she's off on her own now. But um. But we were exposed to that document and it's got all these characteristics of white supremacist culture and it's it's really great. So if there's anybody listening who hasn't check that out. Go look up timmo ocun's website. It's got a ton of great information. But it's. It lays out all these characteristics and it's so it's like perfectionism is on there sense of urgency is on there. Um, quantity over quality. Ah, only None right way fear of open conflict right? to comfort like all of these different characteristics and so we started. You know, working with that back in 2018 early 2019 um and it it was really cool because for prop I mean we still do it but less so now because we've already done it so much. But it's like you know, internally at Kite + Dart. We'd be like. You know like I had my defaults were like perfectionism and either or thinking and um, right to comfort and so when those things would show up. You know Nate would be like hey Karen I'm noticing your perfectionism like what do you want to do with that right? and instead of just accepting that that's the norm and that's what's supposed to be It was like let's let's get curious around. This is this a time for perfectionism is there you know and I like to even I I kind of feel like I hate the word perfectionism like we're all perfect whole and complete the way we are and so we're all perfect and I can also strive for excellence. But that that doesn't mean things have to be perfect all the time quote unquote perfect. You know, but anyway so as you were talking I'm like sitting there going? Yep, there's sense of urgency. There's perfectionism and they are so self-reinforcing and they have been given to us as the norm and this whole taking a step back and leaving. Space for things to happen organically or or even happen intentionally but with space to to make it be truly aligned and truly what you want? Um, it's ah it's so important and like. What would our world be like if that was if that was the norm. Ah god I was I was listening to an episode um to make show notes and one of my previous guests is part of a co-op.


31:06.37

Becky Migas

The norm.


31:19.23

kitedart

And so I've gotten to see see a little bit of the inner workings of and I've worked with other co-ops in the past but inner workings of the co-op and it's like there's a lot of time and intention that goes into creating a worker a worker owner co-op and. Most most people aren't willing to give that time. So I Just I I think that some of those things that your grapp that you've grappled with are so so so common and like good, especially especially good for you that you're like.


31:42.15

Becky Migas

Your.


31:57.37

kitedart

Recognizing those and working through those like I had to have a document like stick it in my face to be like oh oh God now I get it. You know so that's very cool.


32:04.65

Becky Migas

Yeah, well I'll give credit to insight timer there doing meditation is definitely key in helping to understand that that that breakdown and I I will say my business partner in our board chair like you know we had different very working styles when we started working together and.


32:13.77

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.


32:24.42

Becky Migas

I you know I come from the entertainment industry where everything has to be done now. It's already late. It should have been done five days ago and so it was always hustle rush having to get things done I never felt I was always overwhelmed I never felt like I could actually be. Caught up and I don't think even in the work that I do today that I ever feel like I'm gonna ever be caught up but I also feel like if something drops then it was meant to drop and it's okay whereas before I didn't I couldn't do that and so. I give credit a lot to bath because I think that a lot of our working style. She has helped me calm down in that sense of it's not as urgent as I think it is. It's if it's if our newsletter doesn't go out on the none if somebody gets it on the third it really is okay it like it really is okay and no one's.


33:12.41

kitedart

Nobody is going to die.


33:16.67

Becky Migas

Care. No One's gonna notice and it's just like when you start to realize that that we've we almost create our own sense of urgency of feeling. It has to be done right? The second and now the rest of the world's not paying attention. They've got other stuff going on as well and you know it's. Unless it is dire Urgency death life or death. Usually it's okay to to be a little behind or you know and I'm not saying that to get in trouble with your boss either for anybody listening don't say that but I'm just saying we need to stop putting so much pressure on ourselves because of it and it's it's.


33:48.54

kitedart

And have.


33:52.15

Becky Migas

We create our own stress in this space and so yeah, if we could get more people that could could live in that space of how we don't need to be as Urgent. We don't need to be perfect and I I was listening to is either a podcast or a book one day and it was basically. And artist work is never done. They just put it out there but they're always going to be touching it up because there's no such thing as part as perfect in an artist world and I was like right like we would never have art if art had to be perfect because no artist ever Thinks their their work is perfect. They're always fixing it and they're always doing something different.


34:24.12

kitedart

Right? right.


34:28.60

Becky Migas

And I thought that was a really great analogy because we all are artists in our own way and if we always wait for perfect then we're never going to get to that next step we're never going to put our work our gifts to the world. We're never going to let the world know who we are and it really is.


34:38.67

kitedart

Yeah.


34:44.21

Becky Migas

That perfectionism that holds us back and so when you can start to release that you can start to say and it's okay.


34:48.19

kitedart

Yeah, yeah I have ah one of my best friends who's always said to me because I am totally recovering perfectious I'm getting so much better, but like um, she would. She would always say to me. Um I think perfect is the enemy of done or something like that you know and like.


35:04.70

Becky Migas

Yes.


35:06.96

kitedart

Us needs to be just good enough. Get it done. You know and it's like it's okay so yeah, um so true. It's okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, ah so I'd love to ask? um.


35:11.34

Becky Migas

Yeah, yeah, it's so for all those listening. It's okay, we're giving you the we're giving you the grace and permission today.


35:26.90

kitedart

About None other part of your sort of journey thus far um is just is there anything you know part of this podcast is really diving into hearing um voices. Ah you know, business voices from people with marginalized identities has there been anything along the way. Around any identities that you hold that has been challenging in your in your experience as a business owner.


35:51.34

Becky Migas

Yeah, absolutely I think creating a diverse space as a you know, white heterosexual woman. You know while I do do have the marginalized woman piece. You know I still you know I don't experience. The same racism that exists for many and for me, you know I grew up in a very conservative family in the midwest so very white midwest I didn't have very many friends that were of color growing up and. I think creating this space for me has been a journey of learning about myself and breaking down my own walls and having opportunity to listen to our my community members and really learning how to be quiet, sit back and pass the mic. And listen to people and it really has been an eyeopening experience when you start to connect with others and hear their stories and truly embrace those stories and you know I think that there's so many things that aren't that. As I learn I begin to feel so emotional about ah I'm so sorry that this happened in our lives I can't I can't fix that but None thing that we're talking very much about in our home is reconciling. How do we reconcile our past. To be able to understand their present and be able to have a more progressive future and be able to progress forward so that we are better in our society to everybody and so that's a lot of the conversations that we have in our home. It's a lot of conversations we have in our communities. Of. How do we begin to break down what we have been internally taught our whole lives and how do we begin to now create that change so that we can be. We can be a space that allows marginalized bipoc communities to be a part of and to feel. Like their voices matter because that's where I want our journey to go as an organization I really want to truly create that time and space for people to feel like what they say truly does matter and it's a lot it's a lot of personal journey myself you know you and I had that conversation once that we talked about that it really is they can't one can't happen before the other they all have they have to happen in the same time. Continuum there's there's no before we're after it's it's all the same journey that we're on together and we're all in very different spaces.


38:41.91

Becky Migas

And that journey. But when we can get to a space where we can learn to just sit back listen and truly have an opportunity to hear each other and welcome conversation with each other. That's when we start to see that true change happen and so you know it's it's.


38:51.56

kitedart

Um, yeah.


38:59.63

kitedart

Nap.


39:01.87

Becky Migas

Ah, process and I'm not perfect. I'm not going back to that perfectionism right? It is I make mistakes and learning and then I you know, really hope that I people give me grace but also feel that they can come to me and say this was incorrect. Here's you know a learning process or learning moment for you and that I will sit and take it to heart because I think so many times the Bipac community steps up and says here's a learning moment and we don't listen and so now it's time to take these moments to listen and that's what I'm trying to create that space for.


39:35.38

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so true. So true. Well and and it's so interesting because um.


39:53.39

kitedart

It's. There. There's there's part of it is like providing the space and and the you know hoping folks feel safe enough to be able to come to you and say something but then it's also just sort of like you know and and then there's the listening and then there's also just the like load and that that's not Bipoc's job to educate white people and so it is kind of interesting like I've had conversations with other people around this and even you know Nate and I have talked about it and you know I'm in a funny position where I'm multiracial right? so.


40:15.62

Becky Migas

That.


40:31.39

kitedart

So Bipac and I also have a certain amount of like white privilege and so it's like um how can we also like you know what is the work of white folks in that right? like we have our own internal work. But even in community. What is the role of white folks in educating other white folks and like calling things out and and that kind of thing moving the needle forward and then you know one thing that we did ah a decent amount of um, over the years has been hiring by pac folks right? and paying.


40:54.36

Becky Migas

Um, yeah.


41:07.92

kitedart

For the voices and the knowing and understanding and you know really like we value this we're putting money towards this and so there it's it to to your point. It's like all the different ways right? there's.


41:16.61

Becky Migas

Are you right.


41:23.29

kitedart

There's the interpersonal work or the the internal work and there's the interpersonal work community work systems work. There's so many pieces and I'm like we've got to come at it from every single different direction. So.


41:35.31

Becky Migas

And I think immersing yourself in different cultures and in different events is really important and I know we focused focused a lot on Bipac in this conversation but we also really focus on ages I Might like there's all the isms that we can talk about there's racism. There's ageism. There is the.


41:49.44

kitedart

Um, really.


41:55.40

Becky Migas

Disableism There is you know sexism like you know, sexual orientation. All of it right? like so it really is not just about race. It is about all of these pieces that have to kind of sit together and it I think for me is really about.


41:58.10

kitedart

Totally.


42:14.67

Becky Migas

How do we not go and say okay teach me. But how do we as people who don't understand immerse ourselves in situations so that we can begin to see and understand and be a part of those communities go to brewability in. Ah, in inglewood right? Like Brewability is an amazing brewery that is works with people with autism and down syndrome who it's all persons of different abilities and go and be a part of the work they're doing because when you start to do that You start to again break down. These barriers of what we've been taught of well that person can't do that because of of that you know their race or because they're they have a disability or things like that like when we start to break those down and see humanity is really just humanity at the end of the day we're all skin and bones. When we start to do that Then we have an opportunity to really get to understand each other and you don't I don't think necessarily have to say teach me because you've immersed yourself in that that space to really understand and I think that's the biggest difference we can make is how do we instead of separating our Communities. Bring our communities together and break that and bridge that gap and actually the the organization you're speaking about earlier I'm I'm excited I'm meeting with them in a couple weeks. They just joined women of sustainability as well and I'm really the bridging with building bridges. Yes, So super excited to like and that is a lot of our like how do we build those.


43:38.99

kitedart

So building bridges. Oh yeah, great I Love what they're doing.


43:47.90

Becky Migas

Bridges and break down the the barriers of communication so that we can all just really have a heart to heart conversation without it being anything more or less than that.


43:55.15

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally got that So true and and I do appreciate to calling out the isms because it's it is all the isms. It's it's suppression period and it's you know I think a lot of times. It's just very easy to be like racism or sexism but it's. They're all part of the same system. So All part of the same system. Yes I.


44:15.96

Becky Migas

All part of the same system and if we can gotta do I gotta work on all of them right? like 1 ne's like that. 1 ne's not more important than the other. It is all you know it's it all ties in together and so it's just a matter of.


44:27.25

kitedart

Yeah, well and oh sorry, yeah yeah.


44:35.60

Becky Migas

That was it yeah was just I I was say I only have words like like I got I got that over I get those moments for I'm just like who I just got overwhelmed. Um.


44:40.87

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well and the intersectionality right too of everything right? So they start stacking on top of each other. So yeah, um, okay so we we let's go in deep and heavy and then we'll back out and go Okay, let's switch gears. So.


44:44.86

Becky Migas

Right? yeah.


44:58.30

kitedart

Um, I would although I don't think that this is going to be any lighter of a topic but I would love to have a quick coaching conversation and see if we can um, leave you and our listeners with you know some some new uncovering. For yourself. So could you just share with us something that something that you're grappling with today I think a lot of what we've been talking about you have been grappling with and are still grappling with. But if there's something that that you'd like to share about something you're grappling with today that we can dig in on.


45:29.87

Becky Migas

Oh we have again? Yeah so much. Um, you know I think I think the biggest piece for me is how do we again? ensure that we're really truly. Sticking to our mission and including and being a part of a diverse community and you know in full honesty sometimes I get stuck in my comfort zone as Well. You know it's Hard. You know I'm. Get into my circles and it's easy for me to stay there and so I definitely have asked my board to hold me accountable. But how do I I Just personally hold myself accountable and push my boundaries out of my comfort zone to go to these communities and be a part of these communities and. Start to learn from from them so that we can start to bridge that gap and bring people you know part of the conversation with women sustainability as well.


46:30.99

kitedart

Yeah, well, it's so you know I Just yeah I mean I think it is such a. It's a I think it's a very common question I've had um.


46:36.47

Becky Migas

Food for thought.


46:45.69

kitedart

And and I think when you look at the nonprofit world right? There's a there are a lot of white led nonprofits and I think there's a lot of them like the the intention is to do good and I'm not saying you're not doing good but I mean it's just sort of this like um, you know and and I appreciate that you're saying that. That you're asking your board to hold you accountable because it's like just because I intend to do good doesn't mean I'm necessarily doing good so to speak right? and I don't really like that word good at all. Um, if folks want to hear anything about that. They can go listen to my interview with Karen Hibner but um but it that that um I think a lot of people are like ok well we want to diversify. We want to be more inclusive. We're reaching out to different communities. Um, communities with different identities than the leadership of the organization but they're not interested right? And so I think that it's a hard question. Um, because. Well like you said earlier right? You brought up tokenism right? And so nobody wants to be tokenized and I'm not saying. That's what you're trying to do but it's like I think after such a long long long long long deep seated history that that's you know, bipoc folks. Um, lgbtq whatever identity you want to call out folks are skeptical and I don't blame him. You know I don't blame them me too. Um, so I think that part of it is like you know.


48:20.79

Becky Migas

Yeah.


48:33.13

kitedart

Comes back to some of what you're saying right of like really really bringing folks into the conversation into the room and listening to what they say whatever identity it is that they have but really listening to what they say not tokenizing them. Um I think I think. Really big part and I have a client I've talked about this with a couple several times. Um is like looking at who has power right? So It's not only oh come join us and we'll listen, but it's actually like giving up power.


49:09.20

Becky Migas

And.


49:11.30

kitedart

And I think that that's None piece in our society in general right? is that ah people don't want to give up their power and so how do you How do you give power and. You know, not just voice but actual power I think is is a big part of it. Um I think and I think you mentioned this before we pushed record but like even just partnerships too right? And that. As much as you want to be an inclusive organization as a white led organization with a lot of white women in it that too. It's like we want to be diverse. We want to be inclusive and there are other organizations. Out there being led by people with different identities doing similar things and so is it matter of partnering with them. Is it a matter of joining their organization like what is the way that um moves the work forward the most. And creates the biggest shift.


50:24.93

Becky Migas

yeah yeah I think the power piece is really powerful to that Rover or use that word but I was reading something the other day about we've gotten into this habit of at the beginning of events.


50:34.37

kitedart

Um, yeah.


50:42.47

Becky Migas

We say what lands what indigenous lands we're on and you know there's a whole spiel and I've never felt comfortable with that and I didn't know why and they started reading this piece the other day. That's great that we do that. But what are we actually actually doing to give action and take action to give the land back to the indigenous people because we're just saying it that. That's just words right? There's no action behind that and so maybe it's you know, power action leads to power and how do we? You know what do we do? Besides just give the words What are we doing to back up those words at the end of the day.


51:16.84

kitedart

Yeah, and and I think that is really it and and that there's been so much and again I'm not trying to say that you are giving lip service to this desire to be inclusive and you know, diverse and inclusive and having everybody belong. Um, but there's been so much Lip service. There's been so much. Um, people have been so performative with it right? And so there's a lot of distrust and skepticism and and. Is there is it actually going to make a difference right? And so I think that um it makes perfect sense to me that this has been a challenging thing for you I think it's really common and and I do think power is a really big part of it and and action right? and. Sometimes it's a matter of like giving it time for you know for people to to have the trust and um, see that you're you. You really mean it versus you're just saying it. You know.


52:24.30

Becky Migas

Yeah, well that transparency piece saying we're aware of of it and we are working to solve it and we listen to the voices if you want to come forward like we have somebody in our community who who.


52:27.94

kitedart

Yeah.


52:41.60

Becky Migas

Nonbinary and they they were at an event and we it became a very gendered event. It was men versus women in the sustainability space and they felt very comfortable afterwards sending me a note and saying as somebody who is nonbinary I felt really uncomfortable in your space last night and they sat down and had a conversation with me about it and I felt very grateful that we've at least created that space that people feel they can come and then have that conversation and you know we know we're not perfect. We are a young organization and I feel that at least we're thinking about it now as part of our foundational roots.


53:07.27

kitedart

Um, yeah.


53:18.74

kitedart

Yeah.


53:20.37

Becky Migas

You know we're still building that foundation and we hope to embed that into us so that 10 years from now you know that you know that you're not showing up in 10 years and it's still just all white women at at at the events right? that it is a very diverse event and so you know there's I think a lot of hope. But you know, definitely a lot of that to think about with that power piece and that action piece as well. And so um and thank you for those that that information that's.


53:44.12

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, a little tidbits and and it's you know there's so much that's it's complicated and it's messy and I think it's like.


53:55.61

Becky Migas

Um.


53:58.81

kitedart

We've got to be I think yeah like I appreciate. You're just being very open and vulnerable and transparent about it and I think that that's that's just a big part of it too right of being like I am not I don't have this all figured out right? So like I'm open I'm here for it I Want to hear it like and um. That that that that matters and it's probably gonna take some time and and it's okay, again back to a sense of urgency like um and and I do think that that looking for those partnerships can be another great.


54:27.90

Becky Migas

Um, yeah.


54:36.48

kitedart

There are some great organizations being led by people of different identities by Pac Lg whatever different identity so looking at how can you be partnering with them and working together and building. Building um coalitions collaborations partnerships that kind of thing too right? and and and how can you be sharing the power. So yeah.


54:57.52

Becky Migas

Um, yeah, and accountability making sure that there's people who are you know I've I told the board like you know, moving forward every time we build events like we go through the events. The question always has to be. Do we have are we you know collaborating with another organization that is an organization of color. Are we you know ensuring that we're supporting venues that are owned by communities of color. Are we you know? and so there's a list of questions that now have to be asked and and and I think that that's really important that. And I have that accountability Piece. So and I just don't fall into my routine because it's easy to fall into our own routines that we have that we've been taught every day and so I think that and just continue these conversations. You know, maybe having these conversations with you and I think.


55:34.77

kitedart

That had.


55:40.61

kitedart

Yeah, yep.


55:51.17

Becky Migas

I Know we both light up every time we have an opportunity to talk to each other and learn from each other I learned so much every time I I have an opportunity to speak with you and just so thankful that we could bring our conversations that you and I have often to your listeners because I think that it's such a ah ah fun.


56:03.33

kitedart

Yeah.


56:08.83

Becky Migas

Time that we have you know where we both understand the world around us but also hoping that holding on to hope and making it a little fun along the way is is also extremely important so thankful that I get to have relationships with with you.


56:16.73

kitedart

Um, yeah, yes, yeah, well thank you me too. Um, and with that I would love to ask you None very quick questions to wrap up the none one. Is we always talk about entrepreneurial activism at Kite + Dart. So can you share just a quick quick answer of what entrepreneurial activism means to you.


56:42.25

Becky Migas

Yeah, for me, it is making sure that we're in personally youre engaging in conversations and community I think everything that I do goes goes back to that community piece and that we are standing up for voices that sometimes need a little help. Standing up for um I think that that's a really important piece in the work that I do. That's where my privilege gets to to be at work is I get to stand for others who sometimes it's a little bit harder and ensure that I am making sure that they're being represented and heard and so that is.


57:18.77

kitedart

There.


57:21.45

Becky Migas

A lot of work that I do we can talk a lot about like the the disability side sometime down the road but you know like as somebody who's had a lot like a lifelong disease right? like I see so many people in my community who can't sit on a phone with representatives or who can't send on like a.


57:24.97

kitedart

Hey yeah.


57:37.91

Becky Migas

2 wo-day phone call with insurance companies to fight for themselves and so how do I ensure that those things don't happen happen happen for others because I have the ability to help um ensure change legislation talk to politicians so things like that that is I think really important part of the work that I do.


57:45.63

kitedart

Now.


57:53.72

kitedart

Yeah, yeah I Love that I Love that I do I do think being able to use our privilege to you know to make a difference for the world is. Important right? like as kind of going along with this Conversation. We've been having around diversity right? So um, so thank you for that. The last question is where can people find you if they want to learn more about Women in Sustainability or connect with you.


58:12.17

Becky Migas

Are.


58:21.86

Becky Migas

Yeah, absolutely women http://inustainability.org is our website so you can see what we have going on. We'll have a list of events that will be announced soon. Um, just learn more about the organization learn about our membership. We also have a Facebook. Page we have an Instagram we have a Linkedin group and I feel like there's another social media thing. We're not on Tiktok yet I'm trying to talk myself into it but I haven't yet. Um, but the Facebook group really is where the community gathers online if if people are online if they're not I understand that as well. And um, Becky at http://womeninsustainability.org is my email I always say my virtual door is open to the community people are always welcome to schedule a time on my calendar lee to either meet by Zoom or phone for a 30 minute chat to learn about. Work that we're doing and so that we can learn about the work that they're doing and how we can make those connections and so just thank you so much for having me today. It's been wonderful to talk with you and just have this conversation with you and for your listeners as well.


59:30.20

kitedart

Yes, thank you so much for being here I appreciate it, Becky.