Healing, Integration, & Doing it All Wrong with Carin Huebner, Founder of Carin Huebner, HEAL + GO PUBLIC

00:00.00

kitedart

Hello everybody and welcome to today's session of Now & Center. I realized as I was listening to the most recent episode that I released that every single time practically I record one of these I say “I'm so so super excited for the person I'm talking to.”  I'm also like I'm so ridiculously excited for the person I'm talking to today so part of it I think is that I just love people. But this is a person that is just dear to my heart and I love her so much and I love everything I've ever done as far as interacting with her. So with that Carin Huebner welcome to Now & Center.

00:37.91

Carin Huebner

So gosh you're gonna make me cry already. Thank you for having me. It's such a gift I'm thrilled to be here.

00:43.25

kitedart

Yeah, it's ah I'm so Excited. We've been talking about it for a while and actually I feel like um I feel like the timing was kind of perfect just because and I know we'll get into this a little bit but just with some of the changes that you've had going on with your business I feel like the timing was just Perfect. I would love to share a little bit of just how we have how our lives have intersected because I think it's really, it's just really cool and fun because we've gotten to do a lot of different kinds of work together. So. I met you through Nate my business partner gosh some during covid I might have even met you at converge but I don't know if I put that together with you when I met you again during the covid shutdown through nate if that makes sense. Um. But definitely you know we used to office out of converge here in Denver and you worked there and then I met you during covid you did our coursework I've done some coaching of you. You've done some coaching of me, you produced the podcast like I you know you've been a part of. Marketing team at kit and dart like I just feel like there's so many different ways that our work has intersected and then also like as humans. Well we have the same name even though they're spelled differently. But but then also just like you know we have a lot of things in common in terms of like life.

02:33.00

Carin Huebner

I Know this.

02:43.51

kitedart

And so I just I feel like you are just a huge gift to the world and to my life. So thank you for being here with that I'll say if you want to jump in and share about your business. Um, and and the difference you're making for folks.

02:48.12

Carin Huebner

And thank you for.

02:59.52

Carin Huebner

Yeah, absolutely and it is. It's wild I think we met I can't even name the year that we met originally um because yes I was the community manager at Converge at the time and that was before that was when you had started working with kite and dart as like a client before you came on as. As a as partner and everything too. So it was a long time ago. Um, but yeah, and then as we as our relationship continues. We keep finding these little like little easter eggs I think people call them or nuggets or whatever of like.

03:20.24

kitedart

Yeah.

03:31.62

kitedart

Yes.

03:34.86

Carin Huebner

You grew up a little bit in this tiny town that my husband is from and like all this wild stuff. So it's really fun I'm really really grateful for our friendship. So but with that said, yes I am Carin Huebner I um own a business that specializes in spiritual direction and also podcast production. So I'm a stretch director I'm also a podcast producer and have been navigating that for years and years of how to integrate those things together and so I am still working on that but currently. under the umbrella under the categorization of heal and go public so I help people go into their anterior spaces through spiritual direction and heal from conditioning religious trauma religious abuse. Um, and all sorts of different conditioning from white supremacist culture and especially I work with women and folks of other oppressed identities and we look at how all of these things have impacted who they are how they are how they look at the world and then also I help people go public so folks that are. Typically working with folks that have been on a healing journey of some kind and a lot of coaches a lot of coaches that also invite other people into the healing journey. Um, so have done enough of that interior work that they want to go out into the exterior invite other folks into that healing space. So using podcasting. Um, and other marketing tools in order to get their story out there get their services out there so that they can help change the world as well.

05:05.90

kitedart

I love it. I love it. I do love this whole the way you brought the None together heal and go public I think is just brilliant and I I know that I think sometimes people who and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this but like sometimes people who have. Different businesses or different um aspects to their business that that maybe seem to some people like they don't go together it they it can feel hard to make sense of it so to speak and and I think it makes sense period just because we're.

05:36.60

Carin Huebner

E.

05:43.91

kitedart

Um, we're complex humans or don't you even have a podcast called we contain multitudes or you did right? like we contain multitudes and um, so so I think it always makes sense and I love that you came up with this way that is feeling really? um.

05:44.86

Carin Huebner

Um, yes, yes.

06:02.33

kitedart

Integrated and like it makes sense to you? Um, you want well go ahead I was going to ask a question but go ahead.

06:05.10

Carin Huebner

Yeah, and that's no, that's absolutely a culmination of the work that I've done with you and Nate too is that I am seeing myself as an integrated person which is not what I was given. That's not like my default. Um my default is to keep the artist over here and to keep you know from I mean even my religious background over here and you know that we have these different parts of ourselves and pieces but trying to grow into this in my own interior and healing journey. Trying to grow into this more integrated self that we can all show up at the same time we actually are all the same person and that it is good and right and okay that I show up in the world in these other spaces as this like whole person. So and that's something I mean so I still wrestle with it every day of like oh how does the spare direction and the podcast production like how do they live together. Um, how do they live together on Instagram how do they live together on a website. How do they.

07:04.47

kitedart

And.

07:06.00

Carin Huebner

And I get feedback from people that like how they live on the website now totally works and it totally makes sense to people outside but then I have that total mind freak moment of like slipping back into those like boxes. We like you know I like things things boxed because of my conditioning and all of that. But. Yeah, the integration journey in self and in Business. It's big. Yeah.

07:29.56

kitedart

Yeah,, don't you love how? and and I think Also I think this is true for you because of numerous conversations we had but like that business can be this sandbox for this. Transformation like personal transformation Journey Personal Liberation Journey. Um, because it's so like it's so Confronting. Honestly.

07:53.61

Carin Huebner

Absolutely absolutely. That's literally I was talking to somebody earlier this morning and they asked me like a deep question and it was in the context of business and I was like. This is a whole life thing like this is something I do across the board in my whole life but getting to drill into it as far as how it's showing up in my business I'm able to like hone in a little bit more and like see things a little bit more clearly so that then yeah I mean the sandbox I'm able to practice these things in my business and Then. Try to apply them in like the broadest spheres of my life right? and my being too and vice versa like getting able to be like oh well I'm processing this in my Life. You can be for day I'm sure it's showing up and how I'm treating my business right? like that kind of thing too and just like.

08:27.96

kitedart

Um, item.

08:45.00

Carin Huebner

Yeah, but it's absolutely I remember hearing you say that one of the None times of just like that. This is the mean this is our means of transformation like signing up to be signing up to be a business owner um is signing up for that. Transformative process and it is like the things that I run up against in my business are my deep things right? that I'm dealing with on really Grand scales in my interior world. But.

09:17.70

kitedart

Ah, it's so True. It's so funny to me like None of all, right? like to think about all those boxes right? because the world does want to stick us in these boxes right? It's like get in your box stay in your lane. You know. Also. Be small. Don't take up a lot of room in the box too right? like but but it's like you know things seem to be neat and orderly and make sense and it has to be you know the binary you're this or you're this, you know and every it's just like all of the labeling and that kind of thing.

09:38.10

Carin Huebner

Right.

09:56.43

kitedart

Um, and and even with that is like in talking about this, you know transform personal development personal transformation that you know even the separateness of your personal life and your professional life or your work life and that it's it. Even that's just a crazy. Yeah, it's different ways that we spend our time but I don't necessarily look at my quote unquote personal time and go well this is my hygiene time.

10:23.13

Carin Huebner

Um.

10:28.99

kitedart

This is my entertainment time. This is I mean I don't know whatever like this is my exercise time I mean we I kind of do. But it's not like you know what? I mean like it's just it's our professional lives is just another way that we spend our time doing things and being in relationship and making a difference for people and and.

10:36.37

Carin Huebner

Like me. Um.

10:48.66

kitedart

So I feel like of course. Whatever's coming up in our business is what's going on in our personal life or vice versa like because we're just this inhuman in all of the places even though the world would like us to stay in the box and you know.

10:54.30

Carin Huebner

Me and.

11:06.65

kitedart

Feel like as it when I was a teacher it was like don't don't bring don't bring your personal life in here. You just have to be here for the kids 100% and it's like yeah, so anyway, that's just.

11:12.11

Carin Huebner

Um, and that's even more blurred with social media and personal brands and like all of that these days as well and that's that's a lot of.. That's even pushback that I've gotten from friends and family members of like how much to share and how to be professional and how to be a business owner like in these ways of like don't don't be a whole person in your business like that's like don't bring your stuff here. But. Yeah, absolutely and that makes me think too like even when you said like this is my hygiene time. This is my like we don't show up as a different person to all of those spaces like that would actually be I mean some people may but that's actually probably a diagnosable thing like that's like a different experience like but to do it in our. Business versus our personal is like yeah like I've even stopped asking people like what do you do for work because I'm like how do you spend like how do you spend your time Just How do you spend your time like um and that work is usually part of that for folks because.

12:10.94

kitedart

Yeah, you know.

12:19.77

Carin Huebner

They're earning money via doing some sort of work. But.

12:22.59

kitedart

Yeah I like that question way better I've also had someone ask me? Um, you know like what do you care about? you know? Um, yeah, which is.

12:30.86

Carin Huebner

I like that because I've I've known people that ask also like like because I don't I'm a deep diver I don't do like I have a really hard time with what what some would call like surface-y stuff I would like a kinder turn than that so people can help me out there. But. Um, like the shallower things like the which is still has like weird connotations to it. But I've always liked like even at cocktail parties or something to be able to be like some people do the like what brings you what brings you life or like what makes you feel alive and like that kind of thing and I'm like. That also feels really intense like there may not be consent there for that. So I'm like I like the like what do you care about thing because that's not as like, especially as a spiritual director like even if I say I'm a spiritual director people can feel like I'm coming on a little intense like in that because like some people can have.

13:09.53

kitedart

Yes.

13:25.48

Carin Huebner

And protections are walls up to to that kind of dialoging. But um, yeah to ask? What do you care about I think that that's an awesome awesome question.

13:31.10

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well and yours might even be better. How do you spend your time because people can take that like how do they spend their working hours or their family time or their whatever you know? Um, if we're going to put them in boxes.  So we're talking about how you've got these different sides of your business or you know these these different um things that you know ways that you make a difference for people that are related and may seem totally different to people I'm just curious if there's anything else you'd like to share about your experience with that along the way.

18:33.63

Carin Huebner

Um I think only it's coming to mind is just like being a business owner in general like this is so like I never thought that I would be somebody that owned my own business. Let alone like essentially like None kind of things. Um, which to some extent also just felt like too much so then like trying to integrate it is part of that process of like simplifying and and because I'm not going to run 2 Instagram accounts I'm not going to run None pinterest but you know I'm not going to run all of these different things or have 2 different websites and that kind of thing. So but I think the initial of like I found myself as a business owner and then I found myself as like potentially a multi-business owner and was like oh no and then and then trying to go through that transition of like it doesn't have to be anything.

19:29.30

kitedart

Um, and.

19:30.86

Carin Huebner

Like it doesn't have to be a certain way by any means and like breaking that down was like really really tricky and is ah is still something I I work through I mean probably on a daily basis but just of like what is this business like almost like the so Cliche but like the. Like sculpture making and like actual chiseling out of stone So like asking the stone like what it wants to be like asking the business like what do you want to be versus like and essentially asking myself right? Like what do you want to be versus like.

20:00.50

kitedart

Um, and.

20:04.36

Carin Huebner

What are all of these models that you're receiving or like have been given to you without you even knowing as far as like what business has to look like so I think it's the only thing that I would add is that like I. Just by way of being me have become this business owner and suddenly was going to be a multiple business owner and was like yeah no, we're not going to do it that way and so navigating. Okay, if everything's on the table. How are we going to do this. Like how Ah how do I make this work and how do I make this work for me.

20:36.14

kitedart

Yeah, it's so interesting even as you're saying that to think about this like what do I want to be and and even as a as a teacher I We talked about that with kids all the time. What do you want to be when you grow up and it's like your.

20:52.90

Carin Huebner

Nahani. He.

20:54.35

kitedart

Automatically you like and and I hear that that's part of the uncovering right? But no matter what we're doing. We are us we are ourself. We can't be anything else I mean we can pretend to be other things but like um, it is so funny that then one.

21:03.11

Carin Huebner

Me.

21:14.20

kitedart

You're automatically being you by default and like again, why does it have to be defined. Why does it have to be this One thing and you know and I know part of that you're talking about is like even being an entrepreneur. Not you know that even discussing the different things you're doing as an entrepreneur but just.

21:14.39

Carin Huebner

A.

21:21.39

Carin Huebner

Me. And here and then.

21:33.11

kitedart

It is just oh, it's so funny how we just want everything defined and labeled and ah.

21:35.30

Carin Huebner

Um, oh yeah I mean my background is art like I'm an artist and I still tell people that like I'm an artist like that is my primary one of my primary identities is as an artist and so for years and years and years and that's initially what made me.

21:44.67

kitedart

Um, and.

21:53.96

Carin Huebner

And entrepreneur was because when you make and sell your work working you work for yourself. You You are your own business. Um, but all this always looking at like Okay, what does it mean that I'm an artist and then all of the subcategories within that. Of like trying to find my place while I wasn't really like a painter though I love to paint I am definitely in fine art photography and do that. But what does that mean when I'm out in the world and I don't want to make a living just making and selling my art so there was also this massive transition and this overhaul of okay being And. Artist doesn't have to mean that I am only and always making fine art. It can mean that I'm producing podcasts and I don't lose any of that identity as artists because I'm not making visual art right now. And some people may come at me with that. But I don't think I think that that's true I think that that's something that will always be true of me and that that's a huge element of how I show up as a podcast producer and as a spiritual director for folks is that artist identity lives through those spaces but I don't know what made me think of that. But.

23:00.94

kitedart

Um, well and I think that um.

23:02.66

Carin Huebner

That was a thought there.

23:09.48

kitedart

I mean I think in some ways to like being an artist being a creative like I feel like because I have a lot of I mean I I kind of think we're all creatives but but like because what are we? What else are we doing here but like.

23:20.68

Carin Huebner

In here.

23:28.31

kitedart

That So many of my clients who identify as artists that they're doing their they're operating their business in really unique in different ways right? and that that that's the way it works like it needs. Alignment is always.

23:38.24

Carin Huebner

Me.

23:44.49

Carin Huebner

Me.

23:47.22

kitedart

What's going to work best and if you operating your business as an artist in a creative way, maybe different than others that that's that's what's going to work for you because again, it's you and then also. It had me thinking about how um I I would imagine that you being a visual artist and the podcast work and spiritual direction like that every single different aspect of those makes you. Better at ah at the other one so to speak so like being a spiritual director I'm sure makes you a better podcast producer and a better visual artist and being a visual artist makes you better at Podcast producing in spiritual direction and you know every different combination and that it's a huge.

24:24.84

Carin Huebner

Me.

24:30.17

Carin Huebner

So.

24:37.19

Carin Huebner

Here in here.

24:43.90

kitedart

Strength that you've got all of those.

24:43.79

Carin Huebner

Um, yeah, and I'm trying to lean into that more and more every day it is that compartmentalization and like how it all like that desire to be able to put it on paper and how it all works together like even to sell my sell myself.

24:58.13

kitedart

Um.

24:59.57

Carin Huebner

To clients. You know of the benefits of working with me versus other folks or anything like that of you know what do I bring to the table and a lot of my skills are not things that are like listed like I finally at some point was like a light went on with the podcasting piece because I was I was producing pods for. Ah, a year or two before I was actually before before I was offering it to other people and I was still getting paid for them too. But but there was this block in my mind of like well that's not where my education is that's not where my experience is either.

25:32.87

kitedart

Ah.

25:34.97

Carin Huebner

Because I'm self-taught in the pod world as far as editing and like all of the technical pieces in the sound engineering and I got so a couple of courses in film and that's where I learned my audio skills but I a light bulb went off when I essentially was like. I have a master's degree in listening like all say graduate degree excuse me I have a graduate degree in listening like that is that's like something you know like and and all of the years of listening to folks stories before I decided to get a you know degree in script to direction. So yeah, it's. 100% is and when I'm in the place of believing in flow and understanding flow and understanding how everything's integrated and connected I see it I get it and the wrestle too of like how does it live on a website I think I always That's my personal challenge is always. Back to like how does it live on a website together. How does it live on like a bio together like how does this all? How do I make it make sense which is funny because that's such a like even hierarchical thing of like it has to make sense in my brain to make sense in the world and that is not. That doesn't have to be true.

26:49.30

kitedart

Yeah, it makes me so sad that this is sort of what our world does to us right? that this conditioning does this because I just feel like I hear that from so many people of like how do I make this make sense and I truly believe.

26:58.66

Carin Huebner

E.

27:05.76

Carin Huebner

Me.

27:09.21

kitedart

I mean I work with incredible incredible people like you and it's like it always makes sense because it's you and that's just by definition. But that is not what we're taught at all and it just breaks my heart for like everybody's souls that.

27:15.10

Carin Huebner

In he in he.

27:27.97

kitedart

They're out there trying to like make it make sense and that it has to be some certain way. Ah and and myself included.

27:35.52

Carin Huebner

There's right and there's such a like deep piece of that. So like oh it makes me think of it goes right back to the I mean part in part the compartmentalization of like there are these things that stand on their own and they only truly make sense as a whole because it's you right? I hear you saying that and then. And then 2 the um, don't talk about your personal life in business thing but the only way that it makes sense is when it's like when I'm showing up as Carin Huebner to Carin Huebner that's when all of it makes sense together. Um, and and it's.

28:05.50

kitedart

Um.

28:10.38

Carin Huebner

And it's not even just the like I know we're talking about the professional spaces as far as spiritual direction and podcasting. It's also like a massive piece of my own healing is gardening and like gardening space that shows up in my brand because there's metaphor. There's I mean if it's healing space for me. It's healing space for others. And it's also healing earth too like there's just like so many different meta levels of it that are that's healing and also going public as far as togetherness and community I guess and community with Earth. Um.

28:38.59

kitedart

Um, for the.

28:43.88

Carin Huebner

But also the really really deep thing I was thinking about this earlier too and this is you can stop me if this is too tangential or too wild. But um, something that Nate and I have talked about before too is also like and I don't know if he and I have talked about it in this way. But um.

29:04.59

Carin Huebner

Proving proving my own existence on some level of like being able to make it make sense makes it okay that I exist in this way and it's like we don't like I already exist that I exist that I exist as I am. Right? Like I don't need to understand how I am I don't need other folks to understand who and how I am to make it okay that I exist and that I am the way that I am and that's like That's my work right? I mean that's in therapy that's in business that's in spiritual action. That's like in all of my spaces is just that you know I think that we're I mean that that's part of what we're given in this culture is and I'll name that um culture in the United States especially in capitalistic culture in the United States of being able to explain ourselves so that we feel we can be understood so that we feel that we can be loved and accepted so that we feel that it's okay that we exist.

30:00.36

kitedart

Um I.

30:07.31

kitedart

Well yes I love it. Yeah, the deep well that this is one of those things that you and I have in common that is why every interaction fabulous is that we both like to go deep right? and I'm like yeah like that is.

30:10.18

Carin Huebner

Ah, those is what I've been rattling on today. Let's just you know.

30:23.34

Carin Huebner

A.

30:27.27

kitedart

Literally like at the core I mean it's at the core of it all right? like ah that that's fabulous I Appreciate that.

30:29.59

Carin Huebner

Yeah, let alone I'll plug two because this is the space that I hold for folks is also all of The. Um, religious and spiritual conditioning around that and around what existence is for what we are here for what purpose and meaning is and what it looks like and how all of that creeps into um what we can exist for or why we exist and like all of that too and that shows up I mean.

30:50.82

kitedart

Um, and I.

30:59.77

kitedart

He asked.

31:01.57

Carin Huebner

Know you know, but that shows up in your biz that shows up in my business like when I'm trying to prove why I exist or any of that which not not to knock purpose or meaning like I think those are good and beautiful and we're given a lot of stuff around it.

31:06.60

kitedart

Yeah.

31:15.81

kitedart

Um, we are um yes so rich. Um, yeah I love that I just feel like I just feel like that was just like like Mike drop. But when I I'm not I'm not done.

31:17.75

Carin Huebner

That maybe doesn't fit with where we are anymore.

31:27.51

Carin Huebner

You're like okay, let's pull out.

31:35.28

kitedart

No I think it's amazing. It's just so it's so so much which is awesome. Um, okay so how about how about we'll we'll back out of that one a little bit and how about I'd love to open it up to just hearing more like we've been.

31:35.32

Carin Huebner

So the thing.

31:43.77

Carin Huebner

In here.

31:53.38

kitedart

Talking about different things that have been part of your experience as an entrepreneur I Just love to hear you know if there's other challenges that you've had as an entrepreneur period just in your journey and or because of you know you just brought up religion and and. Stuff like also maybe because of your identities and conditioning that you have or the way you've been treated because of them.

32:18.96

Carin Huebner

And yeah, absolutely um, there's I mean as a woman and a business owner. There's all kinds of things that come with that and all different sides and I think I'm kind of even even just in trying to answer it today. Um, usually I can give a more clear answer but it's a little jumbled in my mind today. So that may not be the space to focus. But um, just the sexism present and that I experience as a business owner. Um I mean the sexual harassment in this space. Also I mean um I and and.

32:45.16

kitedart

We said.

32:54.24

Carin Huebner

There's also something else that's coming to my mind is also um, this is going to sound very strange and you might have to help me with language here. But also so like socioeconomically like where I come from like um, my. Parents I I would say my parents are well off and so that that comes from with its own pressure like they don't They don't support me in my business but I put my own pressure on myself of where I should be because of other people that their parents do support they like do invest in their businesses or that kind of thing.

33:12.99

kitedart

Um, no.

33:25.76

Carin Huebner

I Think it's also mostly just pressure from like startup culture. There's this like startup thing that creates pressure there. But I think more so it's coming to mind is like as a woman.? How do I walk into spaces that in and of itself is also really really tricky because Of. Um, religious conditioning that I've experienced as far as being um, a woman being a female-bodied person. How am I walking into a room. How am I presenting myself am I You know it being put that it's my responsibility for how people are consuming me. So if I walk into a room in clothing that is not modest enough or something like that. Um that I am going to be received that I'm not going to be taken seriously as a business owner but that it is my fault that that is true because of how I'm presenting in in my body and in myself. So That's like a whole tricky thing I think that there's.

34:13.23

kitedart

Nearing.

34:20.90

Carin Huebner

I'm just thinking in these broad things and we can hone into one but um I think the religious piece is a really really big piece for me right now and you can stop me if that's not a direction that feels appropriate for here. But I heard you ask it so I'm going to jump in. Um, when so I was given a doctrine that I am a sinner saved by Grace essentially and so it it creates this um or I was given and in the culture that I am from that humans are inherently bad.

34:53.71

kitedart

Um, yeah.

34:55.48

Carin Huebner

Um, or that that is a doctrine that is present within those cultures at least or those Contexts Um, and that I would say is what plagues my business more than anything from the inside out kind of thing I think you're asking about challenges from the outside in but um.

35:12.27

kitedart

Not necessarily. Yeah, yeah, well then what we're what we're grappling with is what we're grappling with whether it's external or internal and there usually is I think to your point.

35:14.10

Carin Huebner

But I guess it's the same. It's the same because it came from the outside and then it was internalized and then it came right? Okay I'm yeah getting it getting it. Um I right? you? Yeah yeah, yeah.

35:29.75

kitedart

Ah, strong connection between what we've been given and internalized and you know So yeah.

35:34.10

Carin Huebner

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I mean I feel like it plays on different levels because there's there's something about my sex there as well as far as in in religion my gender because um, like women in I'm from Texas like it's not like it's it. In that culture being a woman business owner I would say is not the auto. It's not what's traditional. It's not what's like given um and especially within a religious context I think being a stay at home mom wanting to be people that want to be you know a mother all of their lives that was never some. A way that I identified even though I am a mother now. It was not something that I didn't always just want to be a mom I always wanted to do something bigger and different, not bigger different excuse me. Um. But yeah I think I'm losing myself like ah, a little bit here I think the the inherently bad piece is is a really big thing. There's just so many things from that religious indoctrination that really destroyed a sense of self a sense of self-confidence a sense of self-trust you and I have talked a lot about intuition and re um I was in a training it kind of is but retraining ourselves to listen to hone that year to sink in and embodiment is also a piece of that because of um, some of those religious communities.

36:45.66

kitedart

Um.

37:02.70

Carin Huebner

Very severed from the body. Um, and and I mean broadly in American culture severed from the body in a lot of ways. So I think that those are pieces. Do you have a question for me to put me on a better track.

37:15.11

kitedart

That is not this. There's nothing not been fantastic about this I mean I like even I mean I'll just I'll just pull out a couple things that I'm hearing right? like I this whole deal and I think it's literally through.

37:20.21

Carin Huebner

Um I.

37:32.78

kitedart

Working with you that I got this for myself. So let me just call that out that this whole idea of of goodness and badness. You know that? um I was given that as well and I.

37:34.44

Carin Huebner

I mean.

37:41.94

Carin Huebner

Yeah, yeah.

37:51.88

kitedart

I Had a framework of I had a frameworks on the right word I came to the understanding and awareness that part of what was holding me back in business was this need to always. Help others and serve others and that everybody else came None? um and that that that resulted in me giving away so much of my services or you know not wanting to ask people for money or not charging enough or like it showed up as a lot of things.

38:11.40

Carin Huebner

And.

38:23.35

Carin Huebner

Yes, yes.

38:27.35

kitedart

And and and that was there and and it all came from sort of inner child childhood. You know that kind of stuff. Um, and that there was even this deeper level. Um that I do also think came from religion and.

38:34.41

Carin Huebner

And.

38:46.83

kitedart

Um, how I was brought up and and it was very much around this I have to be good and like this deep moral obligation and.

38:53.28

Carin Huebner

I.

39:02.85

kitedart

All the things that would make me not be good. Oh my God like so I I think what you're saying is is so relevant and and again I think it's ah I got to a deeper level of understanding for myself of how.

39:19.84

Carin Huebner

E.

39:22.32

kitedart

Impactful that conditioning was and how it came from even more places you know what? I'll even call this out. You're gonna think this is totally corny. But I even noticed it with our family dog right? like we ah Bailey and it's like all Bailey's being a good boy like oh do do it right? like and I'm like.

39:32.36

Carin Huebner

Um, yes, yes I I know I do it I wrestle with that I know I wrestle with that every day, especially with like.

39:40.78

kitedart

Why does the dog have to be good too like are you? it's because I want power and control who.

39:50.88

Carin Huebner

Because we would never say my daughter's 3 We would never say she is good or bad or like we don't even use the naughty word if people around us use the naughty word. We correct that she is not naughty. She is acting naughty or she made a choice.

39:58.86

kitedart

Yeah.

40:07.92

Carin Huebner

Is not the choice like that they wish or like whatever. Um, but then we do it on Auto with the dogs like oh he's being naughty. He's being a naughty dog and I'm like oh my goodness like and I'm even trying to reset with the dogs too of like.

40:12.67

kitedart

Oh my guess.

40:23.36

Carin Huebner

They are inherently good and beautiful and they are wild and they are doing their thing and how do we resetting from like good and bad behaviors to like what works for our family and what creates what also creates flow and that like.

40:33.28

kitedart

Um, yeah.

40:40.28

Carin Huebner

Naughty traditionally naughty or bad behaviors can also just be a part of all of that dance like whatever and that's but it is yeah that's yeah, the family dog I don't think that's corny that is I see that every day and we're like working on that because we also we have a 1 year old dog too and we're like training him and so it's like.

40:43.41

kitedart

Um, and and yeah.

40:54.37

kitedart

Um, and I.

40:58.10

Carin Huebner

Yes, but the good and it's it's like you said it comes up. It's so insidious it comes up in literally everything. It's like you said pricing structure asking for money. It's all of those things and um even going through right now I'm changing some of my off I've been changing some of my offerings for a couple of months and um, even going through that and it co-ops with I am also a white woman and white women cause a lot of problems and a lot of you know and make things more um out of out of conditioned. Um. And out of complicity like they they they cause a lot of problems myself included. We do um and I and it co-ops with this. So. There's also there's this like good bad thing. There's also a really insidious do no harm thing.

41:51.67

kitedart

Ah.

41:53.75

Carin Huebner

Um, that's present that comes from um Christian I'll call it Christian religious context and that hurting folks is the worst thing that you could do and this is a very nuanced dialogue right? because hurting folks is not okay and also you know.

42:02.83

kitedart

Um, and.

42:12.17

Carin Huebner

By being human by living our lives. We will harm others in some way and and I think about it through the lens of like conflict and relationship like conflict is a part of a healthy relationship. I was given as a child that kind like I didn't understand conflict as a child and I'm kind of arrested in that place I'm working on it but that any conflict is is bad and and is a potential to sever a relationship right? It's like the worse the end all be all like it's either gut or it's bad like this whole thing right.

42:42.26

kitedart

Um.

42:47.37

Carin Huebner

Um, but conflict is not that at all and so also seeing that like harm is harm is not that we're going to go out and do harm in order to incite resolution and. Communion and like that like union that kind of thing but that it's a natural part of this life and being human and that it does draw us closer to None another when we can move in and through it together in some way. So anyway, I think that it co-ops in that way for me of like I am. Consistently is constantly terrified that I'm manipulating folks because I'm bad I have to have ulterior motives um and working through you know and then and then all the other parts of it too of like even when I'm writing copy constantly like am I manipulating here am i.

43:24.31

kitedart

Um, and.

43:41.90

Carin Huebner

You know because of different identity because of my identities but then also because of what I was given at a really early age as far as that there is no good in me.

43:50.27

kitedart

Um, yeah off man which yeah, it's like I don't want to diminish your experience and and and how you grapple with this and it's also like when I think of you I'm like I.

44:01.33

Carin Huebner

And.

44:08.53

kitedart

I Couldn't imagine a single manipulative bone in your body like I'm like you're such a compassionate and generous and caring and um, empathetic human that it's just like gosh.

44:20.77

Carin Huebner

And.

44:27.29

kitedart

Conditioning is so deep and it just is unbelievable. It's that unbelievable I don't like to say that it's totally believable, but it's just like. Yeah yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. Um.

44:39.46

Carin Huebner

That's nasty mom. Well thank you for your words is generous.

44:45.67

kitedart

Well, it's just what's so in over here my experience of you is such that it it just you know so it's and and it's that stuff all I mean yeah, it's all going to come out in business right? like.

44:49.60

Carin Huebner

Thank you.

45:00.82

Carin Huebner

Here me.

45:03.57

kitedart

As well as other places. So yes, um, thank you for sharing that because I think that that I'm sure that that's going to resonate with a lot of folks. Yeah, so I'd love to transition.

45:10.74

Carin Huebner

He I hope so.

45:20.70

kitedart

And I think it kind of flows from what we're talking about to a short coaching conversation like it's it. You've already been sharing things that you've been challenged with and some of those that they're still there. They still show up. They may look different there. There may have been sort of progress. Um, but.

45:23.87

Carin Huebner

Um.

45:39.34

kitedart

Um, I'd love to hear something you're grappling with today so we can see if we can get you a little nugget of something to take with you.

45:47.35

Carin Huebner

Yeah, absolutely so the kind of turn side of that of that like always bad conversation is in being in the healing process away from that. Um, because I do believe that I'm inherently good I Do believe that there is goodness in me and I'm working on that as far as what it looks like in. And that's my held belief What it looks like in functional beliefs That's all script direction language. But um, part of that is sinking into a self-trust so naming that I am good so challenges right now in my business are all coming down to self-trust issues. Um.

46:21.74

kitedart

Um, and.

46:24.74

Carin Huebner

And part of it is that I mean that's such. That's such a big piece of it is of like am I manipulating am I to that am I but I have been in the last couple weeks just in a place of major doubt with myself I think and it causes a lot of. Inaction if you can imagine it causes a lot of not marketing not client seeking like any of those things. Um, which there's 2 sides right? I'm trying to allow myself to wallow a little bit and like feel all the feelings and then also like trying to um, stay in the action that I promised myself.

46:43.71

kitedart

Are.

47:01.67

Carin Huebner

So that I can build more and more of that trust too. Um, so I think I mean like it's so nebulous but I'll throw self-trust at you. Do you want me more specific than that.

47:03.20

kitedart

Um, the.

47:12.68

kitedart

Um, well maybe through the conversation we can you know maybe some more of those things will come in I Want to. Before you do though or did you have something you want to say go ahead? Well I What? Ah what I'm thinking what?? What's what I'm putting together is.

47:31.65

Carin Huebner

Yeah, but I want to hear what you're going to say.

47:48.67

kitedart

Shoot I Just lost it I know I Totally just.

47:50.53

Carin Huebner

Well I was like I was like come on Karen I could take it I thought you were like I thought you were like couching it I was like no no I can do this hilarious? yeah.

47:57.99

kitedart

Um, no, no, no, no, no hold on. Let me just it's there. Um, it goes back to what what I was thinking about was when you were talking about the dog and um I don't know if you use this word but in my brain I was thinking workability right? So It's not about.

48:15.35

Carin Huebner

In.

48:23.70

Carin Huebner

I.

48:28.12

kitedart

Good or bad but it's about there's there's an aspect of right like like part of this is like wanting to let go of this binary paradigm of good and bad right? And 1 thing that we talk a lot about at kite and dart is is workability right? because.

48:37.22

Carin Huebner

La.

48:45.14

Carin Huebner

So.

48:47.94

kitedart

There is no absolute answer to most things but that things need to work right? Your business needs to work for you and your life where it's You're not going to continue it so part of me's.

49:00.47

Carin Huebner

So.

49:06.20

kitedart

Think part of me is wondering like when you think about any of those places where you are not trusting yourself is there something you can do to. Kind of put put your your need for trust or your need to know what to do in a box and stick it on the shelf and focus on what's workable right now.

49:30.69

Carin Huebner

Written.

49:37.44

Carin Huebner

Oh I Love that I Love that because that's also I mean I'm I'm working on all of the like um mind limits right now too. But but definitely working on that and let's. What's funny. This is I feel like I've said this to you before what always comes up in my mind and I bring this to clients because it's kind of funny all the time but is like ah um, some kind of like reset to be like Nope like a little like ah kind of like trigger something that you can kind of get at and I snap my fingers a lot at my desk like okay nope.

50:02.46

kitedart

Um, ahead.

50:14.30

Carin Huebner

We're going somewhere else. Um, but something like and but what I think of is like from purity culture of people would wear like rubber bands on their wrists and like snap the rubber band when they're having like impure thoughts or whatever but just like some kind of outward expression so that like the the train of thought is interrupted. Um.

50:20.38

kitedart

And I mean.

50:33.40

Carin Huebner

But I really like that reframe of workability and what it's hitting on today for me especially is um and this is so it's like such a culmination that I'm talking to you about it today because it's something that um, Nate I know you asked me this before for sure. But Nate has been asking me for years. How I could approach my business as experimental art. Um, because that is that's what that's what I have been trained in That's how how you know that's what I know as far as artmaking I'm an experimental photographer and I like to take that broad or even to experimental art and playing with media media. Um, so I've been thinking a lot about that today and None a side note is I think that we have to have like fulfillment in like all areas of life to also have like fulfillment in our business too and like vice versa like our business can't provide everything for us.

51:27.97

kitedart

Yeah.

51:30.32

Carin Huebner

So I do need to start I mean I haven't been making art for years. So I have some ideas I have some plans and need to go in that direction so that I can lean into that space more of it's not moral. It's not Dramatic. It's not tied to revenue. It's not tied to all of these things. So that my brain can start learning that like that play again a little bit and that discovery and that like what I hear like workability like what what works right now in this moment with this material with this medium and be able to bring that into my business as Well. Um. And I'm even putting parameters on it as far as like and limits like as far as I have to do this with art None to be able to understand it in my Business. So I hear that um, but that hard line because I do bring all the drama into it as far as like. Am I being manipulative is this piece of copy manipulative as this empathetic enough is this compassionate enough is this forever like everyone which is never going to be for everyone. Um, right? is it All of those things is it going to provide revenue is it driving towards.

52:35.53

kitedart

S.

52:45.13

Carin Huebner

My cta is my Cta driving towards the the the the getting all caught up in that and um, another coach of mine at one point asks like because I'm so afraid of doing things wrong. Also so like I feel like another aspect of that is she was like well what if you. You always do it wrong like what if doing it is always doing it wrong which like probably sounds terrible to some people but was like a total like brain blown open moment for me of like if I have permission to literally do it all wrong then we're just playing with how to do it.

53:21.55

kitedart

Um, yes.

53:23.49

Carin Huebner

Like right? we're playing with Workability. We're playing with what works right now within this container at this specific time for me as a specific person and that feels like so much like cozier like ah like at the same time is like extraordinarily expansive which is you know. World of Paradoxes but ah.

53:43.56

kitedart

Yes, that's so interesting because it's also funny because I love I Love that reframe right? I often try to be like you can't do it wrong right? Like there is because the the binary I mean.

53:54.70

Carin Huebner

Yeah.

54:01.63

Carin Huebner

I.

54:01.64

kitedart

I can be with the paradox I can be with the binary I can be with the both and at the same time and so it's like everything's wrong and nothing's wrong, right? or both at the same time. Everything's wrong and nothing is wrong and it's all okay.

54:12.24

Carin Huebner

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I mean however, that question works for you right? because it's like the like.

54:21.30

kitedart

And I yeah it's yeah.

54:27.39

Carin Huebner

There is no way to do it wrong like I mean I give that to people all the time and like have probably been working on that for years but for somebody but but like because but that doesn't make sense to me because of the context that I've been given but to completely blow it up and be like what if it's all wrong then I was like.

54:38.34

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, the I love it. Yeah.

54:44.77

Carin Huebner

Oh we're totally blowing up this like whole thing like okay I can get that like from that entry point right? like it's just yeah and that's the beauty of like coaching too and having somebody to throw things at you. But yeah.

54:55.20

kitedart

Yeah, no I Love that I Love that. So So let me ask this question. Um, you brought in the trust the question of trust um, self trust and. I'm wondering if you come from this place of okay, everything's wrong and it's okay and um, well I but but the but the.

55:21.78

Carin Huebner

It's not so nihilistic. So sad.

55:27.67

Carin Huebner

No I get it.

55:30.20

kitedart

The room the expansiveness that and the coziness that you get from that and you also think about I Love this whole deal about right? like your business is an experiment I Totally believe that for all of my clients. Even if they're not experimental artists. Um, and.

55:39.98

Carin Huebner

May.

55:49.71

kitedart

That you're looking for what's workable now like what does that give you in terms of being able to take action on these things that you're getting stopped with fear and doubt right now.

55:59.55

Carin Huebner

Um, yeah, absolutely so I um I have always struggled with sticking to a plan because I get caught up in the and I can make plans I can make plans like all over the place for everything. Um, but I never stick to a plan and that's I would say is like part of my journey over the last I mean my life but especially in my business over the last few years of like something gets hard or pushes up against some of those things and I just like um, go to the depression space. Go to you know all of the really big questions space but being able to put that on the shelf and move into like what's workable what it gives me. It gives me access to the question of like what can I do right now. What can I do today and how can I keep moving forward on this. Plan that I've already created like let's not scrap the plan. Let's just do the things that are on the plan if that makes sense and that's been the struggle for me over the last two months is I've created marketing plans for my program launch I've created you know all of these things. Um, but it's just that like finger snap of. Okay, put that on the shelf and look at your list so it gives me access to actually like do my list and get an action and those actions right now are those things as far as like executing the marketing plan getting my podcast things done. Um, and. Rip and also I mean ripping myself out of that space of of the drama and the morality of it and all of that too. Then I can write copy like then I can write write like I can write my intro script for my client feature episode that's been on my list for three days like you know like i.

57:40.44

kitedart

Are.

57:50.34

kitedart

Um, yeah, you know.

57:54.19

Carin Huebner

You know and it's not even and because I what I hear you working through with me too is that like I have this belief that I have have to be in self-trust in order to get things done and it's like that's not like the self-trust is already there right. Like if we're real about it. It's just that I kind of get in drama around it and what it looks like but taking out some of the drama putting that on the shelf. We're not asking that question right now. Yeah, which is funny because as a search director too. I'm always like don't go in Rooms. You're not invited into right now.

58:13.67

kitedart

Um, and. Yeah.

58:27.82

Carin Huebner

Like don't be your own surgeon like you are not in charge of your own transformation on some levels like like pay attention to a universe or whatever is is giving you right now versus like all of the things and I think it's those moments of looking at all of the things is when I can't like.

58:38.79

kitedart

Um, yeah.

58:45.10

kitedart

Yeah, and as you were sharing that because you were sharing even a couple of little specifics like I'd even call in um, like when I was getting this podcast cast launched and how stopped I got at recording my intro and outro and trailer.

58:45.39

Carin Huebner

Say in action.

58:59.46

Carin Huebner

A.

59:04.56

kitedart

Like also thinking about like 1 how can use source commitments to pull you in but then also how can you use your strengths and gifts and talents and like not operate against yourself. So for me getting that recorded was not working by myself. So I say Carin Huebner can you help me and I asked for how.

59:19.43

Carin Huebner

In.

59:23.68

kitedart

Help and you showed up and we got it done and it was like oh that was so not a big deal but I was in the drama So like asking for help looking for those supports to nourish you through it. Um, when it's tough and that that that's okay too.

59:25.80

Carin Huebner

Yes, yes, yes.

59:42.29

Carin Huebner

Um, yes, yes, thank you.

59:42.92

kitedart

You know. So okay, yeah, no thank you for sharing all of that I would love to ask my last None questions that you know what they are the none one is just a quick what does entrepreneurial activism mean to you.

01:00:00.66

Carin Huebner

My gosh I knew this was coming and I haven't even thought about it so we might have to edit this a bit.

01:00:04.97

kitedart

You know it.

01:00:13.12

Carin Huebner

I Think yes, ah, entrepreneurial activism to me is using that time and that energy. Whatever we call our workspace to try to implement and create impetus for the change that we would like to see in the world. And usually that desire for change in in our in our world comes from our own past experience. So Also bringing in bringing all of ourselves to the table and working in and through it with others so that we can create a community in a space that we want to live in.

01:00:47.80

kitedart

Um, yes, please I think that's great. Okay, last question this will be in the show notes. But just for folks. Um, who may you just be listening and not looking at the show notes. How can people find out more about what you're up to or connect with you.

01:00:51.52

Carin Huebner

I Don't know.

01:01:03.95

Carin Huebner

Yeah, absolutely the best way is through um, honestly I'm on Instagram a lot. Um at Carin Huebner that's c a r I n h u e b n e r and there's links in that bio to everything my podcast. Um, my email list all of those things and then also the website just for more information and just you know I do a lot but like a description a synthesized description of what I do and some more around what spiritual direction looks like because a lot of people don't know what that is. Is the website carinhuebner.com that's http://carinhuebner.com.

01:01:46.93

kitedart

Fabulous I highly encourage anybody listening to go check out what Karen's up to because it's fabulous. Ah thank you so much for being here with me today and and for just taking things deep I really appreciate it.

01:01:53.26

Carin Huebner

4

01:01:59.40

Carin Huebner

Oh gosh Always I'll always take it deep. Thank you so much for having me.