Ritual Practices, Social Networks, and Cultivating Know, Like, & Trust with Claire Jones, Founder of Liminal Clarity

00:00.00

kitedart

Hello there everybody, and welcome to this week's session of Now & Center. I am with Claire Jones of Liminal Clarity today and Claire and I actually just made acquaintances like maybe a couple weeks ago and Claire was leading a workshop as part of a community activation event that that someone in my network runs and I had the good fortune of being in a small group with her and I feel like we just hit it off and I don't think we were even talking about her prompt but we like got into this other conversation and and just. Felt like a great alignment so claire. Thank you for being here at Now & Center.

00:40.83

Claire Jones

Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm so glad for having this conversation. Yeah, our vibes instantly allied and I was like man we need to like record our talks. Ah.

01:39.18

kitedart

Yes, totally I know I think we've already had 2 conversations from like we should be recording this right now. So this time we're capturing it for all to share with us. So um, yeah, well, um, and and I'm really excited to dive in deep deeper I don't know you.

01:08.85

Claire Jones

Yeah.

02:14.68

kitedart

Um, super well and so I think this will be a fun conversation to just sort of uncover. Whatever new ground comes up today to start with though I would love to have you share about your business I know you've got your hand in several pots. So.

01:44.63

Claire Jones

And.

02:45.76

kitedart

Um, share about your business and any of the other endeavors that you're working on right now.

02:09.53

Claire Jones

Yeah, totally. So my main business is called Liminal Clarity and I call myself a productivity expert and change guide for growth and I basically use all of my years of small business experience. Entrepreneurship experience to provide a so. Ability support system for high-achieving women entrepreneurs executives those visionaries that are out there making a lot of impact in the world during times of change stress and transformation because that's when we lose progress. On the goals that we're trying to pursue and we don't have to sacrifice our goals during those times of uncertainty that we find ourselves in because life throws us curve falls as we all know and there are certain. Practices well as practices that you can use to support yourself during those times so that's my main business.

04:44.80

kitedart

I love it. So with that being said one I love that and you're so right like curveballs. It's like nothing but and it's it's like 1 of those things I personally do my very best to just embrace.

04:31.19

Claire Jones

Those hands.

05:12.94

kitedart

Change and know it's always going to be there and it's okay, like we are on a Journey. We are not arriving So I Really appreciate that I'm wondering if you would be willing like like I said I met you at the event where you were really talking about ritual and so do you want to share more about. That side of the work that you do because I thought it was fascinating.

05:11.11

Claire Jones

Yeah, totally so I see ritual as a practice that you can use to really embody your intentions and your goals whatever you are striving towards. Ritual is a great way to embody your journey towards those goals and focus that journey towards those goals and so rituals can be really anything any task or activity can turn into a ritual itself. It's just the meaning and intention that you bring to that ritual practice and it just provides us with a great.. It's almost like a story structure. You know you start with a beginning situation. You build up to the climax of the story and then you taper off to the conclusion of the story and that's what a ritual.

07:12.30

kitedart

Her.

06:51.11

Claire Jones

Practice provides us with is this because Humans love story. We love sequences We love having this intro body and outro to the things that we're doing our brains. Love it. Especially when we involve physical aspects to it tangible aspects embodying that somatic.

07:37.84

kitedart

Ah.

07:30.97

Claire Jones

Portion of it because that just makes it so much more powerful for our brains and so I am a huge advocate of including ritual practices into our daily wellness practices as a way to. Hone that intention that goal that we're really striving to align with or achieve.

08:59.46

kitedart

Love that. That's super cool and and I'll add on top of that if it's okay because the context that that you were presenting inside of when I met you was really around community community activation and so as a person who.

08:48.61

Claire Jones

No.

09:38.20

kitedart

Um, you know here at Kitendart We we have a pretty sizable community. We do a lot of free events. We lead courses like we do a lot of things in community and I thought it was so interesting to think about this idea of ritual.

09:13.95

Claire Jones

Um.

09:27.57

Claire Jones

Moving totally.

10:08.72

kitedart

And and I get you're saying wellness right? and and there's wellness for community right? and just had never thought I mean I have a background in Education. So I've thought a lot about being intentional about how I build community and the the way we do things and we have a lot of rituals that we use at kit and dart. But did we necessarily sit down and think about okay like let's make sure we've got all of the aspects of a ritual and so that was just super interesting for me. Um, as a leader in my business to think about that. Ah and and also for and our internal team.

10:31.45

Claire Jones

I had.

11:25.28

kitedart

And thinking about what could that look like and what's there and what might be missing So I'll just kind of tack that on about like ah and a particular application that I thought was super interesting.

10:44.75

Claire Jones

Totally and.

11:02.63

Claire Jones

Yeah, totally because rituals really help us take control over our emotional experience of a given situation. Sometimes that situation is a community Sometimes that situation is a divorce Sometimes that situation is you know. These big life transitions that we go through graduations deaths moving homes and so it's really just taking control empowering yourself to take control over your emotional experience of a given situation and as a community leader that's kind of your duty be to. Curate that emotional experience that the community members are experiencing during that time in that community context.

13:15.82

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, it's so funny like as you're talking and again we haven't talked extensively like we've had this short little snippet of conversation and um, just how many words you're using that align so much to sort of the words that I use like and think about.

13:02.71

Claire Jones

Um, leave you.

13:54.96

kitedart

Curate and transformation and transition and earlier you said something and it might have been before I even pushed record I can't remember but you were looking. It was kind of felt like you were looking for a word and in my brain I was like oh alignment like that's the word you know and so it's just funny which.

13:38.95

Claire Jones

Ah. And I.

14:30.72

kitedart

The the common themes in terms of the work that we do even though. Um we definitely. We definitely do different work. So I think that that's that's cool. So I'd love to ask if you don't mind if you'd be willing to just share um, share with us.

14:01.97

Claire Jones

Yeah I had.

15:09.94

kitedart

Maybe some of the things that have been really challenging for you in your business journey.

14:36.93

Claire Jones

Yeah, well I started my entrepreneurial journey back in 2014 it was basically my middle finger to the economy at the time. Um I graduated into the recession with an art history degree.

15:41.44

kitedart

Yeah I Love and yes, ah, yes, ouch.

15:15.51

Claire Jones

And the art industry was hit so hard by the pandemic or by the recession I'm so used to talking about the pandemic nowadays but that's what rolls off my tongue. But.

16:08.34

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:43.61

Claire Jones

During the recession. The art industry was really hit hard and so I couldn't find a living wage job with growth opportunities anywhere like no matter what city I looked in I looked across the us and then I finally settled in Seattle just for the sake of settling in Seattle and even here I couldn't find.

16:28.70

kitedart

I.

16:23.28

Claire Jones

Living wage growth- oriented position and so that was my None challenge really I mean if we're going back to like the o ge challenge of entrepreneurs. Yeah, um, that was like yeah so I had had retail experience for most of high school and college and so.

17:19.92

kitedart

Right.

17:01.30

Claire Jones

So I was like yeah I can run a retail store by myself. Why not and I was really into locavorism at the time and so I divide decided to open up a brick and mortar general store devoted to local goods and so everything was sourced from the Us with a focus on the Pacific Northwest. And starting that business up I really didn't realize the impact of Social networks at that time I was an introverted only child of divorced parents living None of miles away from home.

18:35.82

kitedart

Um.

18:15.57

Claire Jones

And I hadn't really learned the value that you can have or cultivate in supportive Social Networks and so I was left doing it by myself I had no one to really support me throughout it. My business partner ended up.

19:21.12

kitedart

Yeah.

18:52.39

Claire Jones

Cutting out halfway through and that was really the main challenge that I worked with during those days is because you need to create these community again. We're talking about community these community environments.

19:53.22

kitedart

Yeah.

19:19.29

Claire Jones

Where people are like yes we support what you're doing. We're going to talk about what you're doing. We're going to share what you're doing. We're going to give you advice and point you in the right direction and just this collective consciousness that you can tap into through business. Community networks that was really that challenge of that business and so coming out of that I realized that I needed to like a take care of myself so that I wasn't working 60 hours a week burnt out in a white box kind of by.

21:02.58

kitedart

Yes.

20:28.55

Claire Jones

Inventory I couldn't sell but and b cultivate my social networks and that was really the lesson that I carried into Liminal Clarity when I launched Liminal Clarity in 18 and so I spent the first two months networking

21:12.58

kitedart

Ah, yes.

21:03.21

Claire Jones

I was like I need to create my community first and foremost and start from there and so those are really the main challenges that I experienced in the beginning.

21:51.20

kitedart

He has.

22:07.70

kitedart

Yes, got that? Ah, one thing I'd love to I mean None of all the the wellness piece the 60 hours like such a I mean and and our our culture right? It's always like work harder work harder do more do more do it by yourself right? You know? and so i.

21:57.87

Claire Jones

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:46.66

kitedart

No, just no like if people out there are doing that stop like yes, like so um I so I so understand that and and coming from an education background I don't think I ever worked less than 60 hours in a week when I was teaching easy. Um, but I I also. Want to pull out what you said about the social network and I think that that's really important and it's funny because I I think there's a lot of ways to network for one and I like to call that out because I think that sometimes so many people think that it's just going to literal networking events but that there's a lot more ways that that there's a lot of.

23:03.10

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, totally.

23:16.85

Claire Jones

Ihar Well he.

24:03.68

kitedart

Other ways that that can look um and I've had I've had people clients who have an idea and they want to do a thing but they're like not ready to do it per se.

23:45.93

Claire Jones

Oh um.

24:34.62

kitedart

And I always am like go start building the community around you go start talking about the thing like go start talking about what you care about talk about what you're trying to create in the world talk about what matters to you around this and start collecting that community.

24:04.11

Claire Jones

I am.

24:19.30

Claire Jones

And then totally.

25:12.48

kitedart

People around you who are aligned to that vision and you don't have to be ready to sell anything to start creating that community. So I really appreciate what you're saying there and I think that's such a great learning for people.

24:40.39

Claire Jones

Um, yeah, totalr and.

25:42.72

kitedart

You don't have to be ready to sell to go start creating the community of people around you who care about it.

25:06.97

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately because I do have a lot of creative projects going on at the moment and some they're at different levels of gestation you know and I've been thinking a lot about how important it is to focus.

26:10.18

kitedart

Yeah.

25:44.27

Claire Jones

More on your messaging your values your vibe over what exactly you sell because your product and your service you're going to have a dozen or more competitors offering probably the exact same product or service. That you're offering So you're not going to compete on product or service. What you're going to compete on is those community values is that vibe that you create within those circles and that is where I think a lot. Too many like the majority of business owners Fail is because they focus so much on perfecting the product and service instead of perfecting the audience for the product and service.

28:11.58

kitedart

Yes, Amen I totally agree I totally agree and and I think it's so important I think like one thing I'd love to call out about that is that I think that um it makes sense that people do that because in this capitalistic society.

27:56.63

Claire Jones

Um, yeah.

28:50.32

kitedart

It's extractive. It's transactional and so there there is the overemphasis on the thing you're selling when really the way people make decisions about what they're going to buy comes more from that values alignment and so that vibe is so so so important I think the other thing.

28:21.75

Claire Jones

Totally.

28:33.41

Claire Jones

Yeah, totally.

29:28.56

kitedart

That I'd call out from my experience. Um with my previous business was that I think I was so caught up in not wanting to alienate anybody that I wasn't willing to dig in.

29:08.49

Claire Jones

Um, um. Um, and um, yeah, totally.

30:02.96

kitedart

To that vibe and what I what my real values were because I didn't want to alienate anybody and I think that that's 1 thing I've learned so much in the past few years particularly since I've come to Kite + Dart about really leaning into that and that.

29:52.65

Claire Jones

Man here.

30:39.46

kitedart

The goal is to. It's not to alienate people necessarily in any kind of mean way but to like help people decide if if they align to you or not and if you don't give them enough. They can't make that decision. So then it's just like myth. Whatever.

30:07.83

Claire Jones

And his totally. Totally yeah I mean that's what they say about sales is like sales isn't selling something sales is just helping them make a decision. Whatever that decision is for Them. You're just helping them make it and if you can make yourself.

31:23.14

kitedart

Yes, yes.

31:01.69

Claire Jones

Clear in what you stand for and what you what your vibe is what your energy is because people will go to extraordinary lengths to support the people that they know like and trust like.

32:05.72

kitedart

Yes.

31:31.95

Claire Jones

No matter what you're selling if you have someone that no likes and trusts you like to the nth degree. They're gonna buy whatever you're putting down and so you just need to like cultivate that community if people are like you're offering this this month Sure I'll buy it I'm offering this this month. Sure.

32:27.46

kitedart

Yeah, seriously.

32:11.13

Claire Jones

I'll buy it and so you just have like because they know like and trust you not whatever the product or service is.

32:58.24

kitedart

yeah yeah I think unfortunately there's just so many people who have focused overly on the just that I have to sell something like just just. I'm just here to sell something and it's more about the bottom line and the constant like like you're talking about like oh I'm selling this this month and this this month and you know the people who the people have been so sold to in such a superficial way that it's you know it just. Feels like oh they're always just trying to sell me the next thing and so without that know like and trust like buyers are buyers are smart. Buyers are discerning and.

33:45.67

Claire Jones

Um, yeah.

34:38.46

kitedart

Ah, to your point. That's not even as much about what you sell as it is about the yeah, what it means and do they know you and trust you and and want to be a part of what you've got going on So I So appreciate that? Yes, thank you.

34:03.95

Claire Jones

What it means.

34:15.13

Claire Jones

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've actually been thinking a lot about this lately in context of digital content creation like I Honestly think we're moving toward an economy that is more creative supporting.

35:15.86

kitedart

Okay, say more.

35:29.28

kitedart

Yeah I Okay, ah.

34:54.89

Claire Jones

I have a whole soapbox on this. So I'll try to try to sum it up. Um, but with each passing revolution that we go through the industrial revolution the technological revolution we as human beings get more and more leisure time because machines robots Ai are taking up all of the productivity work. For us and so we get more efficiency more productivity and thus we get more leisure time and we saw this specifically during the pandemic is like how many of us turned to entertainment and arts and culture to get us through that period of time. And as a result the gross domestic national product every year and over and over is increasing for the arts and culture sector even more so than industry and agriculture combined and it's. Like skyrocketed during the pandemic and we see this specifically as a result in the rise of tiktokers in the rise of youtubers in the rise of like independent comic artists like you no longer have to have a comic strip in a regular newspaper. To succeed as a cartoonist now you can have an Instagram presence and succeed as a cartoonist and we even see this going back to our previous point of communities with the rise of influencers like because people get attached to these.

38:07.98

kitedart

My.

38:32.40

kitedart

Um, yeah.

37:59.91

Claire Jones

Particular influencers to these particular public Personas and so it doesn't really matter what they're selling. They could be selling essential oils. They could be selling makeup. They could be selling sweatpants. Whatever they're selling. We're probably going to buy it because we like that person. And so we're really moving into this like era of these personal brands like you're not really selling a particular product or service or creative object output item but more so. I'm selling my vibe.

39:49.76

kitedart

Yes, so true and here's here's a really tangible example of that I think I mean it's less about like sort of the influencer culture and stuff. But even so I have 2 daughters um in.

39:31.79

Claire Jones

Um, and.

40:23.44

kitedart

Late teen years and um, this is top of mind because so it happens to be may Twenty Twenty two as we're recording this and for holiday gifts we gave experiences so concerts show tickets that kind of thing.

40:03.13

Claire Jones

Here.

40:54.60

kitedart

We gave it to our children to each other to some of our extended family. We just had a Weekend where we had you know our kids and their cousins and we went to a concert and then we went to meaolf and you know it was.

40:37.50

Claire Jones

Must.

41:26.82

kitedart

It's and then this coming weekend with the and different set of cousins. We've got another concert. We're going to see the banksy exhibit like it's just this whole month of may I think in total my my kids will have gone to something like I don't know 6 or 8 concerts 3 different art.

40:47.87

Claire Jones

Um, and I am more.

41:13.93

Claire Jones

Wow.

42:03.36

kitedart

Showings we did I don't think we've actually had a play Um, but those I think are coming in the fall. So but it's just you So I I Really appreciate what you're saying and and think that like that's true I'm so I'm sick of buying stuff I don't need stuff.

41:50.97

Claire Jones

Yeah, right? Yeah like I don't need an air fryer I don't need a instapot but I don't need all of this stuff filling up space in my home I've got a look at amount of space that I'm working with here.

42:41.40

kitedart

Yeah.

42:50.66

kitedart

Um, right? Yeah yeah.

42:29.17

Claire Jones

And I'd rather have these experiences like I am constantly amazed by the amount of youtubers and tiktokers who are just making bank and like my perfect example is this one tiktoker. He's a teenager guy I think he's around 19 at this point.

43:24.88

kitedart

Yeah.

43:04.50

Claire Jones

And for however, long, he's had this Tiktok account. He basically just does daily videos of the food that he ate for the day and he will do certain themes so like one day will be all green food or one day will be like only Wendy's or one day will be like only gummy foods.

44:02.52

kitedart

Yeah.

43:42.41

Claire Jones

You know and he just like has these video montages of him consuming these themed food categories each day and he's made so much money doing this that he's literally skipping college and bought a tesla. To road trip around the Us so that he can do like state themed food days.

45:07.76

kitedart

Wow Yeah, my goodness yes and people. Yeah.

44:41.47

Claire Jones

Like the creative outt The creative output doesn't have to be like groundbreaking it doesn't have to be revolutionary. It doesn't have to be like anything like I see channels of people who are just like planting vegetables I see.

45:39.68

kitedart

Rights.

45:16.43

Claire Jones

Channels of people who are just sitting in silence for 5 hours there's a youtuber that literally just posts videos of him sitting in silence for 5 hours

46:17.30

kitedart

Wow Wow. So I mean okay this is a curiosity that's coming up on this point like you talked about how you feel like this is really coming to be because of um because of how we don't need to be as involved in production anymore with with.

46:07.51

Claire Jones

and and 1

46:56.90

kitedart

Manufacturing and Ai and that kind of thing and that makes perfect sense. Totally got it. But what I'm wondering about as we're having this conversation is and this is not even related to business but like is is people. Desire to be entertained so much of the time at all about like escapism and right that like there's so much happening in our world right now that is uncomfortable that is traumatic.

47:02.43

Claire Jones

Mood.

47:20.57

Claire Jones

Um, and um.

48:11.46

kitedart

That is all these things like are people just trying to escape Also so interesting.

47:38.55

Claire Jones

Ah, yes, yes I mean I think that's definitely a contributing factor. It's funny because like kind of. You know what's coming to mind right now is I was trying to think of like historical examples of this like is it unique to this time period essentially and what I started thinking about was like traveling circuses like more and more our social media profiles our business.

49:24.88

kitedart

I.

48:45.49

Claire Jones

Presences are essentially traveling circuses. Like we just put on a show you know? And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and like it doesn't really matter what the attractions are at the end of the day. It's just that people go there to fulfill a need.

49:40.58

kitedart

Ah, yeah, do to do to do 2 do contradict toly to.

50:11.84

kitedart

Yeah.

49:34.90

Claire Jones

To be entertained to feel better about themselves I mean that's really the underlying motivation that most consumers are seeking is to feel better about themselves and whether that means escaping with entertainment.

50:42.88

kitedart

Um, yeah.

50:12.65

Claire Jones

Whether that means personal development through self-help whether that means hiring a better financial advisor so that your finances are in a better position like it can apply to all different products and services. But you're pretty much just helping people feel better.

51:09.54

kitedart

Um, yeah.

51:23.24

kitedart

Yeah, yeah I think spot On. That's so interesting and it's fun I mean I just had a great weekend I'm so excited for next weekend I'm like you know I like my work and it's super. Fun to go to a concert and check me bombon and you know whatever. So Yeah I think it's It's all those things. So interesting.

51:12.25

Claire Jones

None um, may have. I think we're just getting to the point now though that more people can make money off of their fun instead of having the money making process be like a work job thing.

52:21.74

kitedart

Yeah.

51:59.53

Claire Jones

Now we're combining those 2 and being like can we have fun and make money at the same time and I think we're finally at a place where we can because of the production things is like we don't necessarily need to be involved in production anymore physically as.

52:48.32

kitedart

Yeah.

53:02.14

kitedart

Yeah.

52:38.91

Claire Jones

Humans So what are we going to do with our gifts instead.

53:28.20

kitedart

Yeah, so true. So true and I think it you know I mean what I feel like the work I do is really fun to me I like it I have fun doing it I enjoy it. Um and I do.

53:04.47

Claire Jones

New exactly.

54:05.80

kitedart

I Do want to live in a world where people do get to have fun and enjoy the work they do. That's why I do the work that I do because that's what I'm always trying to help my clients with is how can you make your business work unique around uniquely around you.

53:32.55

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

53:51.69

Claire Jones

Ah.

54:36.66

kitedart

To match you and your gifts and your talents and your passions and the difference you want to make in the world instead of what somebody else told you you should do So yeah.

54:01.83

Claire Jones

yeah yeah I mean it's a total paradigm shift and I don't think I think we're the None generation to be asking that question because our previous generations like talking about my boomer parents like they never asked themselves.

55:02.22

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

54:39.69

Claire Jones

Like can I have fun in this job does this.

55:21.98

kitedart

Seen I was raised that way I was raised that you should like if you like what you do for your work then every day you're ready to like get up and get out of bed and it doesn't feel like you're going to work so I was raised that way now somehow. I find it to be a little bit annoying because I'm like why do I have to care so much and love it so much like because then when I don't it feels awful I'm just not wired that way but to your point I don't think that's probably the norm at all.

55:18.37

Claire Jones

9 Ah more.

55:32.83

Claire Jones

No.

55:44.43

Claire Jones

Yeah now I'm wondering if it's a generational question or a socioeconomic question because I can see from my like blue collar family backgrounds. It was more important to make the paycheck than it was.

56:37.76

kitedart

Ah.

56:57.74

kitedart

Ah.

56:22.55

Claire Jones

To have fun in our jobs or feel fulfilled by our jobs. So I was I'm wondering I mean that's the question I don't have the answer. But.

57:12.80

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well and I mean that makes perfect sense I think there is probably a certain amount of privilege of like okay yeah I want to do what I love and what I care about and I have to pay the bills and so I may just have to go get this.

57:07.41

Claire Jones

Ah.

57:50.58

kitedart

Whatever job um, got that and it's kind of interesting because I my father's passed away but I've had a lot of conversations with him since um, you know so the 2 businesses I have now are my None and None businesses and so I've had ah he was an entrepreneur. He was an architect. He was an entrepreneur.

57:33.79

Claire Jones

Um, have on.

58:27.20

kitedart

And he started his own architectural firm and it was tough like there were times where it was like okay and he was living in a time where you know my mom was digging at home with the kids right? It was a really different you know, generation and and so um.

57:50.30

Claire Jones

And.

59:06.84

kitedart

There were so many times where he was like I'm going to have to go get a job and at what point do I have to do that because we've got to pay the bills and my wife's home with the kids and she's not working and you know, um so there were there were definitely ups and downs in terms of.

58:31.81

Claire Jones

Um.

59:43.80

kitedart

How I was raised and our socioeconomic status and but I but you're right, There is definitely a certain amount of privilege that may go along with that perspective. Yeah, totally Yeah, okay.

59:17.99

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have to mold it over more.

01:00:21.82

kitedart

So I would love to change topics a little bit and dive in. So so thank you for sharing about like what some of those big challenges were I'd love to ask if there's anything right? like we really focus here at Now & Center on bringing in voices of business owners that have been historically excluded from.

59:41.41

Claire Jones

Let me.

01:00:12.79

Claire Jones

No money.

01:00:59.26

kitedart

Conversation around business. So are there any identities that you'd like to share with us and how they may have affected your your experience as a business owner.

01:00:32.23

Claire Jones

Yeah, totally um I mean I am a bisexual white woman and but the identity that I get most I guess misunderstanding around is the woman in business identity like. I cannot count the amount of times that I've been mansplained that I've been condescended to that I've been dismissed disregarded diminished for any number of reasons. But lately. It's actually been showing up a lot with random men hitting it on me online on my business profiles. And I don't think that happens to men in business of what I know anecdotally. Ah.

01:02:41.44

kitedart

Right? Yeah, oh it's so ick it's soic. Yeah, um so tell me like it is there anything just.

01:02:09.93

Claire Jones

Yeah, um.

01:03:11.68

kitedart

Because you've been in business for a while you've had multiple businesses I know that that there's sort of this new increased aspect with the social media increase that you've been getting but um, what do you? What have you learned about that or what do you do with that.

01:02:41.55

Claire Jones

A.

01:03:00.97

Claire Jones

Do with the obstacles around the identity portion. Yeah yeah, totally yeah I mean I've tried a variety of things I mean when I was None starting out.

01:03:46.74

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, just with how you're treated I mean because I think that your experience is incredibly common for women in business period. So yeah.

01:03:38.53

Claire Jones

I Mean this is true pre entrepreneurship as well. Just in like the job market in the career aspect is like well maybe if I just come off as more professional. They'll take me more seriously.

01:04:39.22

kitedart

Ah, guess.

01:04:04.57

Claire Jones

And I kind of had to learn that especially into my entrepreneurship journey that it didn't matter how professional my headshot looked it didn't matter how big of words I used. In my copy. It didn't matter how structured my offerings were or how much my offerings were none of those contributed to people taking me more seriously or less seriously like on some level. Yes, but I found myself just chasing this. Unattainable ideal without really realizing that you cannot control how people perceive you and your time and energy trying to control that is. Wasted energy and that's really the biggest lesson that I had to learn in terms of public presence as a woman in business and I'm still learning that lesson today like that's one of my recent growth curves that I've been working on is like how. Authentically can I show up in a way that magnetizes people to me that draws people to me that finds people that align with me without being considered like messy or wild or. This as women in society. We often get typecasted as the emotional hysterical crazy ones of any relationship and as a very unique. Forward-thinking creative individual I've had to fight against that type casting a lot is like I'm not wildly imaginative because I'm a woman I'm just wildly imaginative period and so I'm still. Navigating those contexts I guess.

01:09:11.80

kitedart

Um, yeah, so true I think ah, it's just so interesting right? Like there's this.. It's just such a supremacist culture right? like white supremacists male supremacists like it's just. Here's the standard right? The standard in business is Cis White Het male of a certain socioeconomic class and the further removed you are from that because of any particular identity that pull to I have to.

01:09:22.31

Claire Jones

Now. Um, ah.

01:10:25.76

kitedart

Live up to that ideal I have to you know, meet that ideal and ah I think that I I think that now we at least have a conversation for that that doesn't have to be the ideal but we're still fighting against a really really long history.

01:10:11.47

Claire Jones

Um, totally totally.

01:11:04.96

kitedart

Of that being that ideal and and it's also just um, it's just a thing like my business partner and I talk about this all the time that like I could I could show up in a different way even just physically right? like you're saying that more professional.

01:10:56.39

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:42.16

kitedart

I could wear way more makeup I could do my hair I could straighten my hair I could do whatever with my hair I could wear different I mean I'm in a sweater today like it's rainy and dreary here I'm like I'm putting on a sweater like but I could put on a button up or a blazer or whatever and.

01:11:17.33

Claire Jones

Yeah.

01:12:18.58

kitedart

And I could probably make more money but I'm so not willing to do that. So not, it's not authentic to me. So um I think I appreciate that that now we can even have this conversation and and that.

01:12:07.71

Claire Jones

Goodna.

01:12:53.66

kitedart

We don't have to put up with it anymore even especially the getting hit on thing like that is so it cannot even take it. Um.

01:12:23.61

Claire Jones

yeah yeah yeah I mean that was the big controversy that surrounded Sheryl Sandberg's lean in book I don't know if you've read it but there was a huge backlash because she kept advocating for us to.

01:13:18.18

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

01:13:02.51

Claire Jones

Form ourselves into our masculine counterparts in order to succeed in the workplace like lean in become more masculine and succeed and there was a huge backlash because while she was advocating for women's success.

01:13:47.40

kitedart

Yeah.

01:14:00.60

kitedart

Yeah.

01:13:40.91

Claire Jones

She was advocating for it in a way where we wore a mask or created this facade or tried to cookie cut ourselves into this pre-defined version of success which is the white cis head male version that you referred to and like. If I have None more person quote Elon Musk Jeff Bezos or bill gates to me I'm going to scream but like why are they? The only 3 people that we routinely return to for inspirational business quotes.

01:15:09.10

kitedart

Period seriously.

01:15:30.78

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, done with that done with that I'm gonna also call out Tony Robbins here like as a I'm a coach I'm a consultant but a coach to every time I see Tony Robbins get quoted I'm just like I'm gonna poke my eyeballs out. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot weak I mean but yeah, it's.

01:14:51.25

Claire Jones

Like why? Yeah oh yeah, totally yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we can also add Dave Ramsey to the list like yeah.

01:16:10.72

kitedart

Yeah, it's so true. It's so true and I did not finish lean in because once I kind of figured out what was going on. It was like a no I'm just and to your point like yes, women's success and all of that but like not by conforming to.

01:16:01.29

Claire Jones

Curdling.

01:16:43.28

kitedart

Some standard that you know I'm I'm done with that. So um, yeah, so I Really appreciate you sharing that story and and you know how you're approaching that and I me too and I really you know most the vast majority of my clients are women or femmes and.

01:16:35.47

Claire Jones

And here.

01:17:23.26

kitedart

It's like just be you like you can be you and I get that it's hard but like it's it's not to me. It's not only about what I sell you know it's about making a difference in creating a different world so that my.

01:17:13.51

Claire Jones

Yeah.

01:18:01.90

kitedart

Kids who happen to be female. Don't have to put up with that crap when they're my age. You know so not that I have to put up with it a whole lot at 51 but you know, um so I'm curious.

01:17:26.45

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now. Yeah.

01:18:34.12

kitedart

Just to um, usually we we throw in a little coaching conversation here and so I feel like it pulls together some of these different pieces because one of the things you said that you are kind of working through right now is has to do with this increased visibility on social media Now. We've brought in the sexism piece. Um, and and how to use that to to grow your business. So Will you share anything you'd like to share about that. We'll have a quick little conversation about that.

01:18:41.23

Claire Jones

Um, yes.

01:18:53.10

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, totally so my because of the various masterminds that I've joined in the past year and the strategies that I've been implementing my sky my social media presence has been skyrocketing like I currently have 600 Facebook friend requests sitting.

01:20:07.16

kitedart

Wow.

01:19:29.75

Claire Jones

In my Facebook waiting for me to filter through them all and that's like a weekly occurrence for me now and because I've also started doing Instagram reels as well. This is where the sexism portion comes into it I'm getting a much broader much more international.

01:20:21.42

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

01:20:08.45

Claire Jones

Exposure from my Instagram reels and they're very spirituality related I talk about moon phases and I talk about tarot in those Instagram reels and lately I've been getting a lot of comments from men in other countries. Either telling me that I'm beautiful and that they want to get with me or telling me to shut the f up because they don't agree with my ah I don't know what they don't agree with they just tell me to shut up. Ah, and I'm like.

01:21:30.22

kitedart

Ha.

01:21:46.38

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, sorry you have boobs shut up I don't know.

01:21:17.87

Claire Jones

Right? And so it's kind of this double ah double-edged sword of like yes I have all this increased visibility which brings a lot of opportunities and a lot of you know, fruitful potential but at the same time I'm also grappling with a lot of. A people telling me what they think I should be doing even though they know nothing about me and B creepy men from other countries telling me things.

01:22:53.74

kitedart

Right? right? Yeah, it's so funny. So first of all like when I guess one comment I would just kind of make is that I feel like not saying that any of the. Unwanted advances and that kind of thing is is a good thing or something you want but I do feel like when we're being really authentic with how we're showing up anywhere social media or otherwise that it is. It. It does become that sort of line in the sand of the people who agree and the people who don't so None thing I just say is like good for you that you're showing up in these ways with pieces that um, you know maybe weren't part of what you were putting out there before but that are authentic to who you are.

01:23:28.79

Claire Jones

A a hair on.

01:24:45.10

kitedart

Kind of back to that conversation about like really putting your vibe out there and helping people to see and know so part of me feels like as soon as you start getting the haters like good job. You know like you're you're helping people decide. It doesn't mean that you want them to be.

01:24:07.71

Claire Jones

Totally. Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

01:25:21.48

kitedart

Super nasty about it. But um, at least then you know and you can be like block delete unfriend like whatever different things. Um, and I think that I guess what I'm wondering is as you think about it. Um, there's probably not a whole lot to do to stop those things from happening and that the more important thing is on the other side of it.

01:25:31.27

Claire Jones

M.

01:26:30.70

kitedart

The people who are aligned to you and what are you doing with that.

01:25:52.10

Claire Jones

Yeah, and that's I think the thing that I'm grappling with right now like I've actually become a lot more a lot less structured in the way that I'm filtering through like all of these Facebook front requests. I'm getting for example because I have ah over the years I've developed like a predetermined Dm template that I usually filter people through to be like okay, are you actually here to see me or are you here to sell me something ah because I would say like 80% of.

01:27:37.52

kitedart

Writes right.

01:27:05.61

Claire Jones

This increased visibility that I'm getting in my audiences is people seeing me as a potential customer of theirs and so I've definitely become a lot more because it's really like this abundance mindset versus Scarcity mindset.

01:27:57.32

kitedart

A.

01:28:20.16

kitedart

Yeah.

01:27:45.49

Claire Jones

That's what we're grappling with here is like am I feeling like I need to people please all of these people that are coming into my audiences that's a scarcity mindset versus the people who vibe and align will magnetize.

01:28:42.50

kitedart

Ah.

01:28:22.97

Claire Jones

To me in the right ways at the right times and I've been transitioning those mindsets over the last two months now now. But I've had this increased visibility and being like all right? How do I want to interact with it.

01:29:34.52

kitedart

Yeah, so I'm curious. Um, when we were talking before before we hit record right? You were feeling like this is kind of this thing that you've been grappling with and you've been looking at this for some time and like what do I want to do with this and you were feeling pretty pretty good. About the direction you're going and I'm just curious if you would be willing to share and not from the standpoint like I'm I'm really I'm really over the shoulds and supposed to's in business right? So like your answer isn't necessarily somebody else's answer and that's not what I'm trying to promote here but like.

01:29:46.95

Claire Jones

Not to blame.

01:30:01.13

Claire Jones

Um.

01:30:49.46

kitedart

What is it that like what clarity do you have around it and just to see kind of like it's more about like the approach right or helping people see what their what their truth is and what's right for them. So.

01:30:31.13

Claire Jones

Ah, yeah I mean like I said it's kind of a abundance mindset versus scarcity. What I said I mean that's that's the None approach but in terms of like how I'm planning on capitalizing on this and like taking it further.

01:31:26.44

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

01:31:42.34

kitedart

And.

01:31:09.21

Claire Jones

Is really focusing on content in a way that polarizes these audiences because I don't want everyone and their mother.

01:32:00.40

kitedart

Yeah.

01:31:38.11

Claire Jones

In my community. That's not that's the scarcity mindset of I need as many as people. It's a numbers game really? That's the scarcity mindset but the abundance mindset is like I just need to focus on this vibe I need to focus on this community I need to focus on my values and.

01:32:22.88

kitedart

Um, yeah, yes.

01:32:13.99

Claire Jones

Really leaning into vulnerable character content. That's really where I'm going with all of this is like all right now that I have the visibility to work with now I need to.

01:32:51.63

Claire Jones

Galvanize or hone that specific subset of that audience who are like hell yes to everything that I put out.

01:33:49.62

kitedart

Um, yeah, yes, yeah.

01:33:25.73

Claire Jones

And that's where I'm focusing my efforts now more so than in the beginning of all of this.

01:34:09.98

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, and I love that and I think kind of back to the comment you made about sales before that it sales isn't about making a sale. It's about helping people decide yes or no and so.

01:33:50.85

Claire Jones

Oh.

01:34:44.72

kitedart

What I hear is that like with that really you know narrowing and focusing in like really knowing who you're speaking to what you're speaking to you know that message, that helps people self select in or out and.

01:34:35.79

Claire Jones

Totally.

01:35:24.36

kitedart

Getting like a hell no is better than a maybe right? or I don't know because I don't know enough about you right? and so in in getting to the place of hell Yes, you're gonna get hell knows as well and you're gonna get those haters and that that's okay and and I think.

01:34:45.57

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:35:13.50

Claire Jones

Yeah, yeah.

01:36:02.98

kitedart

What I'm really hearing is that coming from this abundance mindset and getting to that place of getting the hell. Yes, there's going to be some hell nose and you don't care. You don't have to please them and like it's just okay for the most part they're gonna self select out but the ones who cut.

01:35:37.63

Claire Jones

Oh yeah, totally.

01:35:57.73

Claire Jones

Um, yeah, yeah I mean in the long run The hell knows are actually a blessing in disguise because I'm not wasting time on them anymore.

01:36:39.90

kitedart

Who end up there. They may have lots of nasty things to say about it but who really cares.

01:36:58.14

kitedart

Totally yeah period. Yeah.

01:36:30.90

Claire Jones

Trying to figure out whether they're a yes or a no if they can self select themselves into those categories on their own then I waste less time trying to drag them across the finish line.

01:37:30.42

kitedart

Yes, yeah, and I think that's so important I think it's such a great great. Great point to be you know, bringing out to anybody who isn't there yet right? that that it really is um.

01:37:16.39

Claire Jones

In common.

01:38:09.68

kitedart

You're doing yourself a service and you're doing them a service as well by letting them know I mean that's why around here we talk about white supremacy culture and the the I mean we're business consultants and we talk about the nastiness of Capitalism right? Like we're not for everybody and so I think that that's.

01:37:40.85

Claire Jones

No.

01:37:52.75

Claire Jones

Now you have.

01:38:48.40

kitedart

That's really great and it does make it a lot easier to just like ignore the ones who the haters.

01:38:17.70

Claire Jones

yeah yeah I mean I used to be a business consultant as well. That was one of the offerings that I've done over the years and ever since I switched to the more like ritual focused spirituality wellness focused offerings. It instantly filters out the people.

01:39:22.14

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

01:38:53.11

Claire Jones

Like I spend a lot less time and useless networking conversations now. But.

01:39:43.86

kitedart

Yep, yes yes yeah we around here we call it ah a Kite + Dart. We we call it you know brands that have teeth right? And so I you know ah kind of to the listeners I encourage you like what I hear from you Claire is that your brand is getting more teeth.

01:39:16.75

Claire Jones

Yes.

01:39:34.31

Claire Jones

Yes.

01:40:18.98

kitedart

And so dig in on that it that was hard for me. Ah as a people pleaser and someone who had to be good that was hard took me a long time to get there good for you? Yes, yes.

01:39:44.41

Claire Jones

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I call myself a recovering people pleaser like we either people please or a a yeah.

01:40:54.52

kitedart

Seriously yes and perfectionism and they could be tied together. But yeah, totally totally awesome. Okay I have 2 more questions for you. These are quick quick questions. The first one and I'm putting you on the spot. They didn't prep you for this but we talk a lot about entrepreneurial.

01:40:46.29

Claire Jones

Um, that means putting profit towards things that matter or putting like not even profit. But your resources I think towards things that matter.

01:41:30.24

kitedart

Devism And so I'd love to hear what does that mean to you.

01:41:48.70

kitedart

Love at.

01:41:24.45

Claire Jones

Because we're even talking about like voting with your dollar I'm a huge fan of making sure that the purchases that you're making are intentional and strategic more so than just blindly buying. Whatever like if you have a choice. To buy a computer from best buy versus buying a computer from a local computer shop I'm going to go with a local computer shop because I know that my money is going to be better spent with them than at best buy and so when I think of an entrepreneurial Activism I think it's just using your resources. For the greater good more so than just for straight up profit.

01:43:22.40

kitedart

Yeah, love that. Thank you? Um, last question Claire is would you share 1 or 2 links if people I'll put them in the show notes. But if people are just listening and they want to be able to find you or connect with you where should they go.

01:43:13.65

Claire Jones

Yeah, all of my links can be found at my link treee so just do linktree slash Liminal Clarity and Liminal Clarity can be found on all of the major platforms. So Instagram Facebook tiktok youtube I'm all over the place.

01:44:24.34

kitedart

Great I love it I know my definitely all over the place. So I love that um Claire. Thank you so much for being here with me. It was a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you for sharing just all of the wisdom that you've garnered in your entrepreneurial journey.

01:44:09.31

Claire Jones

Yeah, my pleasure I love having these conversations because you're right, We tend to feel alone as entrepreneurs and we need to hear that other people are experiencing the same things we are.

01:45:21.70

kitedart

Absolutely thanks. A lot.