Reciprocal Relationships, Asking for Help, and Evolution Design with Michelle Fox, Founder of The Bridge Studio

00:00.00

kitedart

Hello everybody and welcome to the Now & Center podcast. I am super excited to be here today with Michelle Fox, Founder of The Bridge Studio. Michelle, welcome and thanks for being here.

00:12.61

Michelle Fox

Thanks for having me Karen. I'm super stoked for this conversation.

00:33.76

kitedart

I am too I as we were just kind of shit chatting before I pushed record I I said how much I enjoy all of our conversations and so it's it's always always a pleasure. Um I I was kind of trying to think a little bit about how we met. And the funny thing is that I think that our paths had crossed through consultants for good possibly and maybe that's how you got invited to some workshop that that we did at Kite + Dart. But then I remember that you had reached out to me about the whole quote about you can't sad your way to happy and it's just. Been like this fabulous building of a relationship ever since then so I was so happy that you reached out and that we connected and have just had these really rich conversations so listeners you are in for a treat today. Um.

02:01.90

Michelle Fox

Yeah I also I want to chime in and say that it's such a beautiful example of how language can bring people together and with Kite + Dart. The fact that you.

02:22.68

kitedart

Yeah.

02:30.73

Michelle Fox

Describe yourselves in this community that you lead as entrepreneurial activists I think was the none thing where I was like whoa that just like hit to the core of my soul and then with this big idea of like we can't set our way to happy you know like It's so true and with the great work that we're trying to do in business. It's it's a reminder of like hey if I'm trying to make the world. A better place. How am I cultivating that in my experience today like how am I becoming a better person that is.

03:28.80

kitedart

Um.

03:46.13

Michelle Fox

Happy and um, really being guided by the things that I value that aren't money and economic growth you know or like the things that we're told to value. So.

04:16.40

kitedart

Um, yeah, um, yes, yes, no and I mean and it is so interesting I've I've been really holding a lot of space for um, for the but for the for the. Both and right instead of the either or I feel like there's so much either or that Ah, we're always kind of trying to be forced to be in those boxes and this whole journey for me has been um, a lot of trying to create space for the both and and that. Live in this capitalist society and I like money I like to pay I need to pay the bills and I like money and there's things I like to do with it and what actually really really jazzes me is like that making that difference and and my values and changing the world. So um, it's honestly.

05:42.93

Michelle Fox

Um.

06:09.86

kitedart

It's why I'm here doing this because it's just been such a fascinating journey and thing to dipe into So um, yeah, thanks for calling that out I Also want to just point out and laugh that I had my um, the launch event for this podcast last week And I brought up that quote for some reason and um I said it backwards I said you can't happy your way to that. So we ah yes, everybody got a little bit of a chuckle from that but then a couple people were like I don't know I kind of love that too like you know we have to make space for all of the.

06:47.43

Michelle Fox

You actually can. Ah.

07:09.95

Michelle Fox

Totally totally.

07:25.28

kitedart

All of the feels all of the emotions. Yeah, so okay so I would speaking of making a difference I would love for you to share about The Bridge Studio tell us about your business What you're doing the difference. You're making anything you want to share about that please.

07:45.79

Michelle Fox

Sure. So Um I describe myself as a creative social entrepreneur The creative social entrepreneur behind The Bridge Studio so in a lot of ways. The Bridge Studio is like my alter ego. Um, but I get to collaborate with incredible people like the clients and the partners that hire me and then also the subcontractors that I get to bring on for various projects. Um, so The. Bridge Studio sets out to bring creative Communications strategy and design to the world in order to increase understanding collaboration and cooperation toward positive change and. What that means on like a day-to-day level. The client services that I offer the world look like report design data visualization information Graphics workshops that welcome the whole person and. Creative consulting Services. So if somebody has a director of communications but they don't have a creative director I can help come in and outline plans and strategies to um. Bring in storytelling or what I broadly call Creative Communications which is everything that supports that written document like the traditional communication channels that we see in business and nonprofit.

11:28.96

kitedart

Great. Thank you? Um I Really appreciate that it's funny because for all of our conversations that we've had um I don't even know how much we've really talked about The Bridge Studio right? like So I feel like even right there I got a little bit of a clearer picture. So Thank you? That's Awesome. Um. And I think that you had something that you wanted to share about the name of the business. Yeah.

12:04.35

Michelle Fox

Oh yes, thank you for bringing that up. So um, this is interesting because when I was naming my company in 2009 I did a lot of soul searching and thinking about. Ah, my parents who are entrepreneurs and really wanting to name the company something that meant a lot to me and I come from a history, a family history of service in the navy so I grew up on military bases and. Um, and so like that Navy theme is very present for me but I was also raised by a star trek junkie like Kimchi and star trek every night. Love it. So the bridge The Bridge Studio is named after the bridge of a ship and this idea in 2009? Um I was just a few years out of school and I knew that I wanted to use design in a great way in a good way. And to be of service but I you know I didn't really know what it was going I didn't want to lock into just None thing I wanted to be open and thinking about that long horizon view that you see from the bridge of a ship with like your core team. And how you can navigate the seas and link up with other ships in the ocean and then you you depart and you leave and you're all autonomous but you share a vision. You share a goal and you come together at the right moment to do great things and that is what. The Bridge Studio is like that's the ethos that's like really at the center of what I started in 2009 and um and it's taken me to just incredible places of you know, traveling around the world and being exposed to completely new ways of. Seeing the world and being in relationship with these really complex realities that are unfolding.

16:49.62

kitedart

Yeah, that's really cool. Thank you for sharing that and it's yeah I mean it's so funny too because I think in my brain I immediately was thinking bridge like a you know a bridge and it's a similar idea but to like ah you came from a totally different place right? so.

16:45.63

Michelle Fox

Thank you for asking.

17:27.54

kitedart

I Love that and in the it's a completely different visual like us that I have of these ships coming together and and then they do what they're there to do together and then off they go I Love that very cool. Um I also.

17:44.63

Michelle Fox

Yeah, yeah.

18:07.32

kitedart

Just want to acknowledge you for being in business since 2009 because um, it be hard out there sometimes and not all businesses make it and you are making it and you're doing it and that's a really big deal particularly ah coming from the standpoint of of you know. Having marginalized identities and supposedly not being the right person to be in business right? Which I've got we all know is not at all what I believe but just that's what society tells us and so um I think that it's important to recognize that that. A lot of Businesses. Don't make it and and when you maybe don't come in having all the same privileges. It makes it even Harder. So.

19:24.43

Michelle Fox

Yeah, and and um, maybe we can get into this a little bit of how the business has grown how I how I have grown the business since 2009 in order to be fully independent.

20:13.62

kitedart

Um, yeah.

20:03.59

Michelle Fox

You know it. It wasn't something that a few years out of college I I quit my job and I did do this I did I quit my job and I started this business and then I had to go back and get another job you know and then I got ah and then I found this incredible.

20:44.38

kitedart

On that.

20:41.41

Michelle Fox

Part-time job that knew what I was doing and that really enabled me to build the business on the side using their office space that was one of the um offers was you can use the office space you can grow your business.

21:15.16

kitedart

Oh wow.

21:17.30

Michelle Fox

We want you here in the office. We don't know what you're going to do but we don't want you to leave and um and so yeah, I've been in business since 2009 I've been full time independent. Um, since 26 let me think. Yeah, 20 since January first Twenty sixteen or like October Twenty fifteen anyways

22:21.36

kitedart

Yeah, a while though. Yeah, so no, that's kind of a great seggue and and I think that's super cool that they that they were like yeah we want you here and you can work part time and you can use our space and like that they just were really invested in what you were doing So That's super cool and. I think speaks so much to my heart in terms of what I feel like I get to see in business is this relationship this humanized way that people come together and. Are in relationship and invest in one another and it isn't just this transactional extractive all the time. So That's really cool.

23:31.49

Michelle Fox

Totally yeah, there's there's a woman that I met a few years ago an artist, a local artist. Ah Anna Maria Fernando um we might need to edit that out. So I met this woman a few years ago and she taught me this this Ah this word that comes from South America and it's called Iny and the idea is what you have I need.

24:25.90

kitedart

A.

24:46.23

Michelle Fox

And what you need I have and we come together and meet in like a reciprocal relationship to give and to receive from each other but not to have a transactional exchange of extraction and. Like production and I and I feel like that it it is a beautiful thing when in business we can move towards opportunities of I e.

25:38.74

kitedart

Yeah.

26:02.38

kitedart

I love that so we haven't worked together but I'll call in something that we talk about at kit and art and it's we we call it source commitments and it's similar to values. But I think it goes deeper than values. It's sort of like the foundation. It's. Sort of what dictates what our values are but it's um, coming from a more like affirmative creative space of like here's what I want to create in the world and um and I always talk with my clients about how with source commitments you know. Are the things that we want to create more of in the world for ourselves and that it's also what we want to create more of for other people in the world and so and and there's a synergistic relationship that when we when we. Support other people in getting those things. It helps us get them and when we put things in place in our lives to get that for ourselves we open up that opportunity for other people to get it too and and then. With what you just said we we have a different name for it. But I love that that name but it's like well it's it's kind of putting both things together. But it's like that we all have those unique talents and gifts and passions and skills and that when we use those to help us bring more of these source commitments into the world right? That's how that. Reciprocal nature happens and so I love like that reflects so much I think the philosophy that we have at Kitenedart Super cool yeah um I love that so can I ask then think like you shared a little.

29:12.13

Michelle Fox

It's beautiful. Yeah.

29:48.10

kitedart

But about your journey I Guess what I'm curious to hear then um, just because I always like you know I feel like this podcast is a great way for other entrepreneurs to learn from your story. So Can you share maybe a couple of the things that have been challenging along the way. And you can come at this just kind of like this was challenging having a business and or if you want to share anything about like how your particular identities have also maybe contributed to things being challenging.

30:38.87

Michelle Fox

Yeah, So um, I'll I'll I'll respond to the None question None and I think one of the most challenging things being an entrepreneur is. Um, having to do everything alone and knowing when to ask for help. Um I think you know there's this idea of rugged individualism and. Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and you can do anything if you put your mind to it and and I and yeah absolutely I ride on that wave hard like I try you know I'm I'm a creative social entrepreneur I am moving in the opposite Direction. Of the dominant culture Creative Social What entrepreneur like why come on like those the the intersection of those 3 points is like really messy and and there's not. There's not a A playbook for this and um and knowing when to surrender and knowing when to stop and and look for the right people who I can trust and ask for their advice ask for their guidance or just straight up. Ask for help has been. Um, has been an ongoing journey and and its own you know struggle. But I'm I'm getting there I'm getting here.

34:12.42

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, I'm like None of all as you were explaining that I'm like yes welcome to white supremacy culture ragged individualism. You know all all of that. It's like you know what? No this is not how this needs to go and.

34:16.40

Michelle Fox

Yeah.

34:29.31

Michelle Fox

And yeah, something that I think about with the mission statement of The Bridge Studio. It's to encourage understanding collaboration and cooperation. But the word that's missing for me right now is connection and like look at.

35:10.10

kitedart

And.

35:03.13

Michelle Fox

Everything that happens to us when we become disconnected when we leave the pack like there is a place for that. There's a place and a time to say this isn't serving me anymore and I need to go and I need to look for my space that feels right and then to reconnect and it's like. Asking for help is to me a practice of connecting with higher power like I cannot when I start thinking that I can do it all on my own is when I start getting into trouble and Burnout is is close by and around the. Around the corner and I don't want I can't I can't play that game of planning my life around burnouts.

36:44.46

kitedart

Yes, yes, it is. It is interesting right? with how you bring that up in terms of your mission right? and that collaboration and cooperation like that automatically means there's others right? and that whole idea of the ships right. Coming together and and yet it's been a challenge for you even with the the mission and the name coming from that space that there's still this like no I got I got to write this alone. You know and I think it's really really common. Um I think it's really common. In entrepreneurship because the way that we've been conditioned has been just you have to go it alone. You have to be good at everything you you know work harderter work carter work carter work Carter which is not have balance ask for help know when to surrender. Um, don't don't don't push yourself to burnout right? like so um, one thing that you said earlier too was like no you know finding the right people to get help from and kind of just because I brought up source commitments I totally throw in here that.

38:49.10

Michelle Fox

The.

39:19.20

kitedart

I Think the best way to find the people to help you are the ones who share your source commitments. Maybe not literally except but you know other people who care about connection and collaboration and community and creativity and then who have those skills and talents that you don't have just like I forgot the word already that you shared that.

39:42.25

Michelle Fox

Finally.

39:58.72

kitedart

The woman's at Iy yeah iny so like that that that's a perfect example and that that's not only as someone selling something. But even as when you're looking for the people to help you that that's yeah yeah.

40:10.59

Michelle Fox

Right? that you're aligned.

40:35.56

kitedart

Um, and and I it sounds like like you said you're making progress on it I'm curious to know what has it been? That's helped you to make the the progress in being able to ask for that help.

41:02.83

Michelle Fox

Yeah I don't you know, let's see so I've been I've been doing this for for None ears and um, yeah I a few years ago I i. Encountered some health issues that were really exacerbated by overworking and that caused me to just do a full scale inventory on what's working and what's not and it and so it was it for for some. People that might be easies for some people. It might just be like gimme gimme gimme like I'm going to call you I'm going to call you and I'm going to and I'm going to accept your free labor to help me build my mission and I think that that's a common that's something that I have commonly seen in the entrepreneurial space.

42:45.80

kitedart

And.

42:52.41

Michelle Fox

Where people will vary freely. Um like extract from others and and it's like okay. Number None for me. It's not bad to ask for help. It's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing to receive when you can't immediately reciprocate in a way that feels um, balanced but knowing that like it can be a constant and unfolding of relationship with people. And um, and and it's okay, not to know all the answers. Um and something else that has become very true for me is like to ask for advice but know that you don't have to take everyone's advice and to move at ah at a level that is. Um, where I can meet myself at that growth edge when I'm ready but not to feel like I always have to be pushing like you know like I always have to be burning the candle at both ends and.

45:19.68

kitedart

Ah.

45:11.41

Michelle Fox

Um, yeah, because business comes with a lot. Especially I think creative business like there are different wells of resources that we have and the creative resource is is regenerative. But if I like empty the tank. It's going to take a lot more time to like re energize or like refuel that tank and same with executive functioning like I can max out on how many decisions I can make in a day or like even how many conversations I'm able to have so like. Having the right rest knowing where I am in each of those buckets is really important and you know it's I think it comes from like self-awareness and in some way this is going to sound really tragic but like. Being okay with not being okay and just saying it especially given like the last few years of just collective trauma that we've all been sitting through. So.

47:16.86

kitedart

Ah, yes.

47:41.60

kitedart

Yes, so true. So true I love that I was like oh I can't even share it as listening to something somebody was talking about that and I was just like spot on like yes, we are not who is okay I mean oh it was it was it was. Was listening to Lauren Hill on Spotify like in music but it was like this interlude at a live show and she was talking about how like yeah like I don't I don't have all the answers I'm not okay I you know, um. Um, like yes, thank you? Oren Hill anyway I a couple things I'd love to pull out from that one is that the health thing right? and that that I think that that is so so so common in our culture is that we don't and this isn't everybody but that so many of us and maybe. Maybe a lot of it is women. Maybe it's people of color like you know the ones who are like always um, supposed to be helping everybody else but that we don't we push and push and push and push and that it does take those health challenges to.

49:34.71

Michelle Fox

Ah.

50:10.40

kitedart

Get us to back up and be like whoa. Okay I have to take care of myself right? I mean so much of my background's in education like teachers giving give and give and give and give and they burn out so often and entrepreneurs do as well. So I think that it would be really great if um.

50:24.30

Michelle Fox

And.

50:48.98

kitedart

People like I have 2 daughters and you know teenagers and it's like I am trying so hard to set the example for them so that they don't have to have those health challenges I did too. That's what finally got me there and it's like to help them be like set those boundaries know where your boundaries need to be.

50:59.29

Michelle Fox

Um.

51:12.83

Michelle Fox

I.

51:28.72

kitedart

Um I think it's just so Important. So and then I I Love Also what you were bringing up about um again I would call this like an inside out approach and this is what we what we cultivate or help people cultivate for themselves at kit and dart.. There are so many shoulds and supposed tos in business right? everybody and you're right. You can take advice and you don't have to listen to it and other people's advice may be the worst advice for you because who knows what works for them and you know and so and and we're conditioned. To always have that outside telling us what to do or when to do it or how to do it or et Cetera Etc. We get it from School. We get it from jobs and again that if we if we it needs to work for us and we are not all the same. And so having that inside out approach having that Self-awareness is absolutely invaluable in business and like anybody listening I'm like do that like do that listen to yourself.

53:27.79

Michelle Fox

Yeah, yeah, and it makes me think of you know at the end of the day we're not promised tomorrow and as I'm like working so hard to leave this world better than I found it I am.

53:59.84

kitedart

1 1

54:01.71

Michelle Fox

Living a life of creative service like I want to do right and and be open and willing to um, receive myself and to acknowledge what I have done wrong.

54:45.40

kitedart

And.

54:35.33

Michelle Fox

You know and to be open and willing to other people's feedback when I say or do something that you know doesn't land right? or like maybe I'm thinking about something in a way that's inconsiderate to someone and so it's like I want to know that um I'm I'm doing I'm like. Always thinking about the future but you know at the end of the day we only have today to be you know to like to be happy. To be rested in a way that doesn't make me feel like every cell in my body is like jacked up on caffeine and like fried you know and and I think that that it's such an important place to think about like where we're coming from in business and and really doing like the inside out work and.

56:08.20

kitedart

9

56:22.53

Michelle Fox

The beautiful phrase that brought us together of we can't set our way to happy and like just check in with that. You know like check in what is what are the vision and values that I'm holding space for and what am I doing to really cultivate that in in my.

56:59.80

kitedart

Ah.

56:57.81

Michelle Fox

Personal life I cannot change anybody else I can only change me.

57:18.14

kitedart

Yeah, and I'll call out that that it's personal life and professional life right? that those those again I call them source commitments that those source commitments that are are why that they're personal and they're professional and that we don't have to separate these. Things and this whole idea of decolonizing entrepreneurship to me is about really doing what you just said and and honoring ourself and being authentic and staying true to our values and our commitments and. You know, doing what works for us and taking that responsibility right? I think it's all of those things. Um, and and I also want to call it just like because earlier you said like being okay with not being okay too is that that whole idea of you can't sad your way to happy also doesn't.

58:47.13

Michelle Fox

Yes.

59:13.82

kitedart

Discount or you know, um I don't want it to be the kind of thing where it's like making people wrong for being sad right? that that we do need to be okay with not being okay and all of those feelings are okay and to me it actually.

59:15.77

Michelle Fox

Right.

59:49.60

kitedart

So much of it comes back to the source commitments right? So that if if None of my like None of my huge commitments is liberation and freedom and I can't in order to attain liberation and freedom for myself I can't keep myself. Stuck in oppression and it shows up anyway, right? and that it is that I can feel sad about it I can feel mad about it I can feel frustrated by it and.

01:00:20.59

Michelle Fox

Yeah, what.

01:01:03.88

kitedart

If I hold onto that vision of liberation and freedom and lean into that it keeps me going even through the tough times so to speak right.

01:00:54.19

Michelle Fox

Um, yeah, yeah, and 2 I think like working through any type of trauma. It's like it's 1 thing to hold space and to process and to do that work.

01:01:39.00

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

01:01:29.99

Michelle Fox

But not to be living in it every day and to think about like how is it impacting me in my interactions in business or in life and how can I How can how do I need to like how can I practice and be in the practice of learning and growing because of like. You know everyone has gone through Covid and been forced to live in their homes and not see their friends and not give hugs like the on ah on a very tragic but also um, ah you know there are people who have experienced much much deeper Traumas Especially. You know we're we're sitting in the wake of of ah very significant Traumas that I'm I'm not going to specifically name on the podcast because um, you know I don't I don't think I don't I I It's just such a ah heavy thing to.

01:03:32.28

kitedart

Um, yeah, so true though. Yeah, one of my top source commitments is love like let's just holds space for some love.

01:03:23.53

Michelle Fox

Uncover, But so.

01:03:42.89

Michelle Fox

Yeah, for some love yeah and something about the source commitments. Um, having not been through your your trainings on this. It makes me think of. So as a creative social entrepreneur I am endlessly fueled by purpose and passion. But what I need to do for myself is look at the places where I can fulfill my need for purpose and be careful of how close to the edge I get on things that I am deeply passionate. About I've never heard of a crime of purpose but there are a lot of crimes of passion right? and I think that there's a there's places where I know I cannot go and I cannot give myself fully to this particular issue.

01:05:20.48

kitedart

Right.

01:05:30.89

Michelle Fox

Because I'll just explode into the inferno of frustration and um, whatever systems are just like deeply troubling. How can I support those systems in a way that feels right and authentic and that I can.

01:05:45.16

kitedart

A.

01:06:07.61

Michelle Fox

Stay committed to over time. But what are the things that I can really like bring my talents my skills and my purpose too and that's that's really at like the top. The tip of the spear of my business. You know it's like graphic design communication design visual design storytelling.

01:06:44.92

kitedart

Yeah.

01:06:47.50

Michelle Fox

Um, and really trying to help people to connect with each other from the heart space. Not the head space. We have enough of the head space. We have enough of the head space. But how do we like receive people into these. Um so into the um work.

01:07:10.40

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

01:07:26.75

Michelle Fox

Of Tackling really complex challenges like climate change like these mass migrations of people climate Refugees Political refugees. Um and and solve those problems from the heart space where. Creativity comes where innovation comes where things that have never existed before come.

01:08:31.80

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, so can I ask here because of what you're sharing about this. Um I think I think it was our none None on one conversation we had if I'm not mistaken. Maybe it was our none you shared something with me that you had been working on which is evolution design and I was like salivating I was like this is a fabulous um and I I feel like what you're talking about is really kind of headed in that direction would you share for us.

01:09:21.82

Michelle Fox

Totally yeah, it's funny because throughout this conversation as we've been talking about values and can't set our way to happy. Um I feel like we have been laying the.

01:09:40.56

kitedart

About Evolution design.

01:09:55.43

Michelle Fox

The foundation to what I call evolution design and that is a value centric approach to systems change. It's designing in concert with nature toward more preferable futures by really activating.

01:10:23.68

kitedart

Yeah.

01:10:33.71

Michelle Fox

Those visions and values right now in this moment you know and and and I think that that is what I consider um my life's work is to is to do that and it and to to. Provide a framing to the great work. So Many people are dedicated to working across many different systems. Um, not just looking at our globalized world or even at our world at at the point. On our evolutionary scale where we have these seismic forces that are causing our realities to change and transform like it's not just our world. It's how we Connect. It's how we communicate it's how we understand it's technology. Um, it's politics. It's economies. It's It's our earth system and all of those things are changing and um as we colonize space like just in the last year. Um, we've put. Civilians into space right? like that it it is Insane. What is happening to us. Um, right now.

01:13:42.46

kitedart

Let's pause for a sec.