Anti-Oppression Healing, Discernment, and Asking for Help with Leanne Alaman, Founder of Embodied Contribution Consulting

00:00.00

kitedart

Hello everyone and welcome to now and center I'm super excited for my guest today. This is just this ah wonderful human that I have just felt privileged to have gotten to know over the past. Um I don't even know how long it's been maybe gosh I feel like it's. Been like a year and a half since I First met you leann um I'll actually even tell the story because I actually met you when you were presenting at a consultants for good meeting and I think it was my first meeting with that community and I just. It was like a thing I felt in my heart that I just was like this is one of my people I need to know her I need to find out more about what she's up to in the world and I've just been really thankful for all of the conversations that we've had between now and then and the work that we've done together. The collaboration. So, I would like to welcome Leann Alaman the founder of embodied contribution hi Leanna.

01:14.15

Leanne

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here I've enjoyed our connections and collaborations as well.

01:22.52

kitedart

Yeah, thank you? Um I will also say I'd love to just throw out here because I'm such a fan and have been from the get get go that it was so fun I believe it was last week I got to um attend a workshop that you were leading. And it was so fun because it was a pretty big workshop and there were all of these introductions and I just love how like a third of the people in there were just like your fan club and everybody was raving about you and so I I thought that was super cool and fun to see so.

01:55.97

Leanne

Yeah, it was so sweet to watch the emergence of like the Leanne Fan Club as everyone dubbed themselves I think you know it was actually really sweet for me because I have been working to heal my own internalized depression and I think my ability to stay present with the love and positive feedback like.

01:58.88

kitedart

Yeah.

02:14.93

Leanne

For me was evidence of a lot of growth. Um, so it was just so nice to connect with everybody in that level of being seen and being appreciated I would have not have been able to do that before.

02:16.82

kitedart

Yeah.

02:25.36

kitedart

Ah I Love that? Yeah I get that I get that. Um, how hard that can be so good for you and I think I think it was great that it happened and and I love the growth that you're seeing. In your journey with that. So Super cool. Well thank you for being here I would love to start off and have you share with my audience about embodied contribution if you can Share. You know what your business is what you do and really the difference that you make in the world. Please.

02:59.35

Leanne

Yeah, um, so the business is called embodied contribution consulting and we provide paradigm shifting equity work and what that means to me is that we have moved or I have moved away from doing it solely Anti-oppression Education. And into anti-oppression healing which I think is where culturally we're at as a species right now is the need for healing if we can't stay in our heads forever and try to solve all of our problems that the problems are trapped in our bodies. Um. So Yeah I work primarily with leaders and decision makers because structurally speaking making a difference with them that difference can triple down they have the power to either support transitions towards equity liberation and Justice or hinder those efforts and. I Think just like the rest of us they are hurting and they are struggling and they are unsupported or lacking as much support as would be useful to make the changes they want to make um, see how my goal is to support them in their leadership knowing that equity is a much more effective tool for success than Oppression. Um. But we have to learn how to do that.

04:13.20

kitedart

Yeah, ah I appreciate that so much like I really appreciate your focus on on healing like 1 on on how it is in our bodies and how we need to heal from that and I completely agree like I know I know my journey with this work has. It. It actually got started in college like way back in the olden days in the 90 s and I feel like I got so disconnected from this work in the struggle to just sort of. Get by and survive and to your point I think there's a lot of leaders who don't feel particularly supported and so it can make that work really hard and um and I agree that that that we do have to be able to heal in our bodies if we're really going to move forward to the world that I think both of you and I that both you and i. Really want to see you know in the future. So I love that.

05:08.60

Leanne

Yeah, yeah, and I think Executive coaching has been such a beautiful practice because you get tailored Education. You don't have to teach to the group and where is the kind of the the Median or the average person in the group like you get tailored one on one support which I think is just a more. Is an impactful way to work when you can.

05:28.39

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, absolutely And and I think that for leaders it is really important because it it can be isolating work and I think so often at least in the work that I've done with with leaders I really feel like sometimes. Leaders feel like they they have to like maintain a certain sort of look or posture or whatever What have you and I'm not saying that that necessarily is great like I Really believe in people being able to be vulnerable as leaders I think it does a lot for the people they lead. And it's also really great to have a space where they can come and process through things without an audience of the people they're leading.

06:10.79

Leanne

Yeah I think it's sometimes um, it's just inappropriate to try to you can't have your employees doing the emotional labor of hearing your struggles and I think people know that and there's the tension though because people also want you to be authentic and show up as your actual self. So. There's like a very I think a tricky balance like there's a line of um, it's not just how much of yourself. Do you be, but which parts of yourself. Do you share and with whom and what is empowering supportive responsible all of those pieces.

06:41.97

kitedart

Yes, Ah I think that yeah I think that's you're so right that tension it is such a tension for sure. Yeah, my in my other business I Um I work with educational leaders. And that's been one of those things that I've worked with a lot of clients on is that balance of you know in the entrepreneurial world is different because so many of my clients are solopreneurs or consultants you know and they don't have a big team but it it really is a different thing when you have a team and and I. I Also appreciate what you called out about that emotional labor of the people underneath you needing to listen to that you know support you in that that kind of thing So ah, juicy, juicy stuff I Love it. So Let me ask this question. Um, in your journey as an entrepreneur I'm super curious to hear like what? what some of the biggest struggles have been for you in starting and or running your business.

07:48.28

Leanne

Yeah I mean I think the like accurate but also funny answer is like the biggest struggle is oppression. Um, whether it's coming externally or internally um is definitely reflecting on the work that it's. Pekin for me to heal my internalized depression to stop limiting myself and what I thought was possible for me or what I was willing to try. Um I've had to get past this desire to look like I know what I'm doing when I don't and like actually ask for help and be honest and vulnerable. Um, and I know I've struggled with some of the ways that small business supports I think are really paternalistic and the people are I replied for a grant that said like if you at the end, the fine print was if you get this grant you have to go through our it was like six month long

08:31.29

kitedart

Um, ah.

08:43.20

Leanne

Like training program and I was like I don't I've already done several um you know small business Accelerator Programs I don't think I probably need what you're offering. Why are you assuming that I need this like instead of checking in with me like way what support do you need? Um so I feel like a lot of the supports come with a lot of strings.

08:56.11

kitedart

I.

09:01.97

Leanne

And I think they're trying to be helpful. But again, it's a ah classic tactic of oppression to assume that you know what someone else needs and then force them to receive it when they don't necessarily want it? Um, So yeah, just continuing to navigate oppression in all of its forms internally and externally um, which I think is.. It's also been good for me to build my own discernment about what I need and I think sometimes if I make a mistake. We'll trust that that is how I need to grow and I think I I Demand and I deserve the right to make my own mistakes. Um, and and that feels.

09:30.31

kitedart

Ah, f.

09:39.94

Leanne

That's been feeling good in my body.

09:41.50

kitedart

Yeah, ah, that's such a good one and and it's so interesting I I've never applied for grants as a business owner I've I have through nonprofit work through educational work. But I I never have as a business owner. So. Um, I think that's so interesting because it very much does mirror the patriarchy that's present in that in the nonprofit world right? with the the um common practice of nonprofits being funded through grants and foundations and that kind of thing and. So I Quite honestly I hadn't even thought about that through the lens of being an entrepreneur so or at least that piece of it right? I internalized depression as an entrepreneur. Yes, absolutely I've processed a lot of that but that's so interesting that that it's still Operating. You know that that you thought.

10:31.16

Leanne

Yes, ah.

10:38.89

kitedart

Operate in that way And yeah, that's not I'm just not a fan. Let's just say that not a fan I Completely agree. Yeah.

10:48.51

Leanne

Yeah, it was disappointing. It was disappointing to me too I cleaned you wait you I'm sorry you don't believe in me, you're gonna give me money but you don't believe in my capacity. Um, so I think it felt good for me to reflect and say actually I'm gonna stop. Ah I'm not gonna apply for this again I don't want what they're offering I'm gonna focus on making.

10:58.80

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

11:08.44

Leanne

More money in my business that I then can choose to spend. However I see fit Um, and I mean in some ways it would have been easier right for someone to just be like here is a chunk of money to invest. But again it came with strings and so I assessed for myself that the strings didn't feel. Like what I needed and so I pivoted and I've been making more money so it's working.

11:33.91

kitedart

Bravo I Love that I Love that right? Which which you know in and of itself probably feels more empowering or powerful ah to do it that way.

11:42.87

Leanne

Yeah, yeah I have the thought like wait you have a business just make more money like that's the mindset I've been trying to cultivate. It's like oh no, if there's a problem. We don't have to look somewhere else for a solution I look to myself and my own funnels my own connections my own ability to build this business.

11:48.28

kitedart

Yes.

12:02.54

kitedart

Yeah.

12:02.57

Leanne

As the solution which I think is kind of the mindset that is probably the best mindset to be cultivating as a business owner right is the belief that your business can grow and expand and make more money.

12:08.28

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, So so so true I I Really appreciate that and and I I Love I Love the discernment right? I Love that. That's how what you're going with Because. We've been conditioned to like change ourselves when something's not working that we should be changing ourselves or that we shouldn't be listening to our internal knowing right? and that we should be trusting what other people say or that we um, you know that. That there's There's all the shoulds and the supposed tos and that we should change ourselves instead of changing the external stuff. So I Really really really appreciate that.

12:56.70

Leanne

Yeah, we have ah a deepseated belief in outside experts that I think is it's over exaggerated and I say that as ah, an outside expert who comes into organizations but I come in and I listen a lot right? I'm the outside expert who partners with the inside experts.

13:04.83

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

13:10.43

kitedart

Yeah.

13:15.33

Leanne

Knowing that that gives us the broadest view of what's happening. Um, and so yeah I think I've had to unlearn some of my own belief in outside experts and what other people think that I need um and yeah sometimes I think I have in hindsight like maybe when you could call a mistake but I'm like well but I learned.

13:26.37

kitedart

Yeah.

13:35.70

Leanne

Something really important that I get to now um, use to strengthen my own discernment like building discernment is a lot of making mistakes. Um or you could just call it building discernment. So.

13:41.96

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well in. It's so funny that like you talk about the outside expert because. The work that I do with people is getting people to be able to is is to get people to trust their discernment and to listen to themselves and uncover their own truths and I feel like so I'm an I'm a consultant too I'm an outside expert. And so much of my work is getting people to shift how they look at things and how they make decisions and who they're trusting and that's like some of the biggest work that I do right? and then it's like okay now what do I do with that right? and then it's like okay here's how we apply that and here's how we shift but. Um, I just again I just really appreciate that. That's the way that you're you know that that you're really doing that work to trust yourself and and it's working and I think that's the important thing and that's a really important message for people to hear is that you could sit behind your computer and continue to fill out. Grant application after grant application that comes with strings and 1 you may or may not get it. Secondly the strings that you get may or may not be helpful whatsoever to you and instead you're like I'm just gonna go sell some shit and I'm gonna make a difference for people and that's what's working. So yes.

15:07.72

Leanne

Ah, yeah, thank you? Oh and I think you're someone, You're so good at um, giving people the tools to build their own discernment. Um, and I think that is such a a beautiful and effective way of working right to create like.

15:10.60

kitedart

I Love that.

15:24.89

Leanne

Long lasting change. Not just like here's a quick fix. Do this thing. Um I know I've appreciated that working with you like getting the sort of here's the tool use this to discern for yourself. Um, yeah, it's been a definitely a helpful helpful practice.

15:36.64

kitedart

Yeah. Yeah, well thank you? that's that's I mean that's that's why I love this work right? is and it's so interesting because I think some of what you've been talking about here has been my experience as well in that being a business owner has been. 1 of the most impactful things I've done in my whole life to heal my own internalized depression to really stand in my power to really use my voice and to really create that long lasting change and and both personally professionally and for others right? and that. Really see it all very much tied together right? and helping others get that transformation for themselves helps me get it me getting it helps others get it like it's just I think there's such a synergistic relationship between all of that and it. Literally is why I do what I do so so thank you? Yeah I probably wouldn't have been able to be with that sometime ago and probably would have like said some self-deprecating thing but instead I'm going to say. Thank you? Ah right.

16:51.22

Leanne

Yes, look at us. Love it I Love it to love it. But.

16:56.51

kitedart

Or 2 for healing some internalized depression I love it. So let me ask this then this is um, kind of relates. But. Might be a little bit different I'm not sure but I'm curious I mean it. It definitely relates. But maybe there's more to say um as a bipoc business owner and as a person who has some different intersectional identities. That have been historically oppressed. How has that affected you as a business owner are there other other things you can share about that other than what you've already shared about a grant.

17:38.24

Leanne

Um, yeah. Um, you know what comes to mind is that um I feel like this is both like a challenge and an opportunity. Maybe um and I think being from historically marginalized communities. 1 thing that we one tool that we've used to survive and. Thrive is the power of community and like collective organizing like collective support. Um, and I've so appreciated that there are so many spaces where bipoc business owners are getting together to support each other and that I think the level of support that people are willing to like offer. Is um, it's really deep and it's really sweet because it's not just like paid. Do you have a recommendation about ah software but people can be like hey I'm like having a day like um, we can talk about like hey I'm having a flare up of imposter syndrome or like where people can be really honest about like what. Really going on and get emotional support as well as just like logistical support. Um, and so I feel like the challenge in some ways is feeling um, don't know like unseen or unvalidated under invested in um, but on the flip side. The opportunity is all the ways that we support each other and that I see people when they get ahead, be really eager to support the people coming up behind them. Um, like we do have this belief in collective liberation that I think is just a very.

19:15.12

kitedart

Um, yeah.

19:18.92

Leanne

Indigenous worldview like this idea of interdependence interconnectedness and those of us that are closer to our indigenous roots I think still feel that in our bodies in a way that makes it easier to access. Um I know like a lot of my clients and work mostly with white folks in my coaching practice and their bodies. Have been disconnected from their indigeneity for so many more generations that I think it can be harder for them to to access that like awareness at a physical level but I see bipoc folks like just like ready and raring to go to support each other and lift each other up. Um.

19:42.49

kitedart

Um, ah.

19:54.43

Leanne

I've appreciated being the recipient of that excited to pay that forward in the ways that I can and yeah, just see us all thrive right? A light a rising tide lifts all boats.

20:03.70

kitedart

Yeah I love that I love that I I think that um a point I'd love to just pull out of that too for anybody listening right? is that if you are an entrepreneur and you are not connected to a community of people where you can like. Be real with them and and share your struggles and just be authentic and vulnerable and all of those things like go find 1 right find in the aligned community I know when I first started as ascension energetics my my side gig business at this point. Um.

20:30.66

Leanne

Yes.

20:42.66

kitedart

That I joined some communities but they weren't super well aligned to me and so it still felt very isolating and um, not super supportive and so I think finding aligned Communities. You know whether you're bipa or not right? like no matter who you are like find a community of people who who value what you value who are committed to what you're committed to and um and you know be willing to ask for help and lean on people I Think that's such a good point.

21:15.40

Leanne

Yeah, so true and that you thanks for widening it I think you know again I I try to speak from my own experience. But I know folks that are in communities of um folks that have like different levels of ability right? and need support with people who get it and will um will see their greatness and support it. Um.

21:21.11

kitedart

Doubt.

21:34.90

Leanne

No folks that look I don't want to do a program in English they found a program in Spanish like those programs are out there and those aligned communities do exist. Um, it's just a matter of I think sometimes just putting in the the effort to find them which again can be hard but it's worth. It's worth the investment.

21:38.43

kitedart

Yeah.

21:51.89

kitedart

Ah, absolutely I Totally agree. Um, so I'd like to switch gears a little bit. It kind of still relates to this but you know you've you've talked about some of the struggles and challenges along the way right? and I know a lot of it's had to do with internalized depression. Um, has had to do with identities. Um I am curious to hear. Um I'd love to just have a short coaching Conversation. So I'm curious to hear what is a challenge that you're grappling with currently.

22:25.86

Leanne

Yeah, um, so I have long covid I've been dealing with chronic fatigue for about 2 years now which is almost the entire time that I've been running this business and so um, yeah for me I think the challenge has been navigating. Running a small business as someone with a chronic and invisible and new disability. Um, and just yeah like how to get everything done while kind of honoring myself I think it can be easy to to to be in the grind as someone who was wearing all of the hats in the organization. Um, and I know that rest is is critical and so I will be.

23:09.96

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that with us. So I'd love to have you think about like we were just talking a little bit ago about Discernment. And how for you that's been one of the best ways to navigate your way through your entrepreneurial Journey. So what? What would your? what does your discernment tell you? what? What do you already know.

23:46.28

Leanne

This is a really good question part of me like kind of want to say it out loud. Um I think that I have been next look We maybe even talked about this like I just I know that I need to ask for more help than I've been asking for. Um.

23:53.27

kitedart

That's okay, if you don't want to say it out loud.

24:03.30

Leanne

And I think yeah I've reached kind of the threshold of my comfort level with how much help I've been asking for and I need to to go past the current level of asking for help that I'm doing um I've I've thought about it I've written some emails but not sent them. Um, and so I probably need to ask.

24:10.10

kitedart

Um, ah.

24:22.95

Leanne

For some support about asking for more support.

24:25.64

kitedart

Ah, yeah, what.

24:35.94

kitedart

Shoot I had a question I had 2 questions and I'm like words put them together. Ah I think what I'm curious to know is what are you telling yourself. About yourself that keeps you from sending. It.

25:01.54

Leanne

Ah I think I tell myself that it looks like everyone else already knows how to do this and they'll think less of me if I say that I don't or that people will think something judgmental like well gosh why can't you just do that. That's easy. Um. My mom used to say don't compare your insides to other people's outsides I think it's like 12 step phrase. Um, but I think I do that where I'm like oh yeah, these people look like they have it together and I'm like based on what like that their email signature is very well formatted like I don't even there's some people in a group I'm in I don't even like know them. But I have this.

25:24.25

kitedart

Ah.

25:39.49

Leanne

Belief that they are have it more together than me.

25:43.14

kitedart

Yeah I think that that's such a common thing right? It's an and especially right like we live in an outside in world right? Our school system right is all about right? oh. Who's doing it who's got the right answer who doesn't have the right answer who's getting it who's not getting it right? We're looking at an external definition of success. We're looking at an external definition of how we'reless to do things right? and so that comparison becomes really really easy and. Like it's totally built on false equivalency and to your point I think of what your mom said like what what I take from from that is that what they're showing you on the outside like you literally have no idea how true or not true. Any of that is. So true. There's a I'm pretty sure that that Nate my business partner asked me because I you know I I came to kite and dart as a client right before I was ah was a partner and Nate. I can't tell you how many times probably like 6 or 8 told me to go watch the the Youtube video Marcel the shell. Um I don't know if you've ever seen it. But it's this little shell person and it's like everybody's like Marcel your head is so big and he's like compared to what and it's.

27:03.25

Leanne

No.

27:15.56

kitedart

Super Helpful. So Any I'll off to put the link to it in the in the show notes but you know I I think that I mean we just we make up so many stories about it and we literally have no idea you literally have no idea and. You know you do liberation work right? So if you're coming from a liberated Context. What would that have you do.

27:44.40

Leanne

Yeah, and I appreciate. Um, the reminder about what I actually said about discernment. Yeah, and so looking from like my own practice of anti-apression healing. Um I Think what I know to be true is that. When I listen to myself regardless of the outcome I feel empowered either I get the outcome I want or I learn something really valuable every time. Um, and so it does feel clear to me to be asking for more support. So We know that either I'll get the outcome that I want or I'll learn something really great from doing that. Um, and there is I think a move away from what do other people think trying to be in alignment with that to just like but what do I What do I think? Um. Think I appreciate that reminder like I think that I need more support and I think that more support would be easier and more fun and so that is probably what to do.

28:46.12

kitedart

Got it? Yeah, so we can ah like let me know when you send the emails. Ah I can be your accountability partner. That's the thing I do ah.

28:54.35

Leanne

I'm being great. Yes, ah, permit me. Yeah for my perfect? yeah yeah I will send some emails this week um that'll be good actually just showed up to a a space this morning that I've been wanting to go to that. But I haven't It's like a ah black only space that was so sweet and nourishing. So I'm also feeling energized from that. Um, so yeah, it's time to oh I think the other thing I think we know from anti-oppression liberation work is that thinking about stuff is insufficient.

29:15.56

kitedart

Earth.

29:29.84

Leanne

So definitely a moment where like action is required to to make ah make the changes that I want.

29:34.47

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, so true. So true I a couple things one I love that that what you said about going to the the black only space I think that's so great because you do work with a lot of white leaders and just that that having the time. Not just because of the long covid but because of the emotional labor involved with the work that you do is that you are creating that space for yourself to um. Heal or rest or rejuvenate from that work. So I think that that's really important. Um I also want to bring up can I bring up something that we talked about in our coaching session last week is that okay, and and I think it relates here and and I just want to even point out like I think.

30:20.90

Leanne

Um, oh yeah, sure.

30:28.44

kitedart

The other thing I would add to everything you said like I love this I need to ask for more help and more support. Oh. There's actually there's 2 things I want to say one is that the other thing I want to say is that when you ask for help and you let people um, help you or do the things for you that you're not good at. It allows you to be a bigger contribution to the world and I think it's really important to keep that in mind if you spend you know 10 hours struggling to do something that could take somebody else 1 hour that takes you away from the important anti-oppression work that you're doing.

30:49.69

Leanne

Um, yeah.

30:56.18

Leanne

For right.

31:05.50

kitedart

It leaves you with less capacity to do it. So I think again like as small business owners as consultants we've got to remember that you know it feels like we have to wear every single one of the hats. But it's like there are other people who that hat fits them better. Like let them wear it and do the things that we're really really good at because like this isn't just about a paycheck. It's about changing the world and that matters.

31:32.55

Leanne

Yeah, yeah I Know that's so true I think it's funny how often doing things that align with like caring for ourselves and our well-being are also just good strategic business moves and I think in the like desire to prove that we're good enough and we can do it all.

31:45.90

kitedart

Yes.

31:52.10

Leanne

We can forget that I'm but like a know it's true. That's a better strategic business decision to like to delegate something or to yeah to get some help. Yeah.

32:00.83

kitedart

Yeah, so true. So true. It isn't a sign of weakness. It. It is a good strategic move. Absolutely um, so then the other thing that I wanted to say from from a coaching conversation that we had last week is I think there's. There's there's asking for help and support and then I think there's also this kind of just goes back to that whole discernment piece and really knowing yourself and I just want to call out that right we were were working on building your business development strategy and what are you going to do to go out and and get the business that you want. And that kind of thing and we built this whole strategy and it was beautiful and it was very well aligned but I so appreciated that you were like hold up wait a minute I literally can't do that right now and I just thought that that was excellent because so often we.

32:52.15

Leanne

Yeah.

32:59.24

kitedart

Look again how we have to change ourselves in order to make things work and you were like you know what? I don't have the energy for all of that I can't do that I don't want to do that. It's not going to work for me and so one it was just like the like saying no listening to that discernment and then you turned around and like. Immediately like just was the powerful creative human that you are and some other opportunities popped up in a completely different strategy to approach the same problem that actually will work with for you which is awesome.

33:31.94

Leanne

Yeah, yeah, well and I so appreciate it like I think working with you gave me a level of clarity on how many hours I'd have to invest to do that Strategy. It was a strategy that I thought would be ideal but then in getting. Fake and going wait. Okay, that's going to be like this many hours a week and then um was able to notice it like that doesn't fit in with my current level of energy. Um, and I don't I didn't have that clarity before because the plan was more vague like my plan on my own was very vague. Um, yeah, and so there is something.

34:02.78

kitedart

Right? right? right.

34:07.29

Leanne

So helpful about getting the support to get things really clear and really tangible to then see if is this gonna work or not and it clearly what and wouldn't have worked at this point in time. Um, and I I think you know another thing about finding folks to work with who are values aligned. Um.

34:12.25

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:25.21

Leanne

Just I So appreciated that you were willing to say oh yeah, Okay, great I Believe you when you say that you can't do that and not like I think other programs or other you know folks out there might have said Oh yeah, you can do it just work harder Just do more hours of work. It's no big deal and I really appreciated that you. Heard what I said and like believed me when I said actually can't do that I need to find something else and then we pivoted.

34:44.44

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which was awesome I mean there's just no other way to do it right? like I've had coaches before who were like the no you have to do this. You have to do this. You have to do this and and then what I what did I do I sat and beat myself up because I I didn't do. But I wasn't going to do it right? Like you know you you know right? to your point and and yeah I mean that's the fun part of the work I get to do right is that co-creation and co-collaboration and but it like. Listening to our own discernment is literally like just so huge in business. Absolutely.

35:25.15

Leanne

Yeah, and I so I Just really do appreciate the way that kite and dart and you are really willing to be like partners and allies. Not um I don't know Judgmental Critics I guess but like we feel partnership right? like of um.

35:37.52

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

35:42.77

Leanne

In it together with like shared wisdom inside knowledge outside knowledge coming together.

35:47.57

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well and I think you know it it kind of circles back to to what you're talking about with with that values alignment right? And and that's what I want for all of my clients is that they get to work with people where that values alignment that um. There's that collective commitment to doing things in a different way and that work in the lean in and look at what does it take to do that right? and and how it's like it's like building the plane while we're flying it right? It's like we don't have the business. Ah, business norms business culture. Um on a large scale that looks like that that looks like trusting people to know that looks like valuing their uniqueness valuing who they are and. Looking for a way to make things work.. That's not what exists but it's like we're reing into that as much as we possibly can because how else do we create it like there's just you know, kind of to your point we can't just talk about it I gotta do it? Yeah so I love having part having having partners to. Play around and and and figure it Out. So So thank you to you as well. Um I I Want to just be mindful of time and um I guess I'd I have one last super quick question but before that I'm just curious if there's anything else. You'd like to. To say or share in this conversation. Okay, well, it's just a rapid fire. It's kind of something I ask everybody like at the end you know at kite and dart that we talk about entrepreneurial activism all the time.

37:24.40

Leanne

Ah I'm just I'm so excited to hear your question.

37:38.27

kitedart

So I'm just curious to hear what is your definition of entrepreneurial activism and I'm putting you on the spot.

37:40.73

Leanne

Ah, oh my gosh. It's a great question on the spot. Um, well um, at youth empowered action camp which is the largest youth activism training camp slash summer camp. In the nation that I helped create curriculum for many years ago we would say that sort of activism and leadership are really just a function of seeing that something needs to be done and doing something about it. You know it doesn't take more than that for us to say that you're a leader um and then. And being a leader I think or being an activist so I would say in this case, it's just seeing what needs to be done and doing it but creating a business to facilitate that and I am all for people getting paid to see that something needs to be done and doing it. Um. Not just having to volunteer their time to do that. So yeah I love that term I think it's very it feels very applicable for all of us who saw there was a problem decided to do something about it and decided that we should be paid. Well for our work.

38:51.37

kitedart

I Love that. That's absolutely beautiful. Well said. Ok um, this is actually my last question but that was my laugh that was my last meaty question here's my real last question my real last question is just.

39:02.67

Leanne

Okay, good.

39:07.96

kitedart

How can people find you and connect with you further if they would like to do so.

39:11.58

Leanne

Yeah, um I am most active on Linkedin get find ne lean ann dash alloman embodied contribution is not been creating content yet um l e a n n e dash a l a m man n and at embodiedcontbution dot. Um, um, those are the 2 places where you can find me.

39:33.76

kitedart

Perfect and I will put the links in the show notes for all of the listeners leann. Thank you so much for being here. It's always like just lights me up to get a chance to chat with you. Thank you for the contribution to the listeners and I'll look forward to next time we talk.

39:49.82

Leanne

Yes, it was a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.