Now & Center: Entrepreneurial Voices from the Margin

Innovative Branding, Perfectionism, and “Big, Crazy Ideas” with Diana Merkel, Founder of PS.Design

June 07, 2022 Karen Bartlett Episode 7
Now & Center: Entrepreneurial Voices from the Margin
Innovative Branding, Perfectionism, and “Big, Crazy Ideas” with Diana Merkel, Founder of PS.Design
Show Notes Transcript

Episode Synopsis:  

Karen talks with Diana Merkel, Founder of PS.Design, about the iterative nature of business, the challenges of communicating new and innovative business practices and offerings, and the power of storytelling and alignment for branding.  They also discuss ways to lean into perfectionism and going after big, crazy ideas.

Links:

Schedule an Exploratory Call with Karen: https://calendly.com/karenbartlett/30min

Learn more about Kite + Dart Group:  www.kiteanddartgroup.com

Register for an upcoming event:  https://www.eventbrite.com/o/the-kite-dart-group-16435043586

Learn more about PS.Design:  https://ps.design/

Connect with Diana on Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/psdotdesign/

Connect with Carin Huebner at Public Good Media:  publicgood.media

Original music credit goes to DJ Ishe:  https://soundcloud.com/ishe

00:00.00 kitedart Hello everyone and welcome to today's session of now and center I am super super excited about my guest today I'm speaking with Diana merkel. She's the founder of p s design and it's really funny. Actually I'm not exactly sure when it was last year we met but it was post covid quarantine happening and um, we've we've done a lot of different working and collaborating together over that time and you know I hadn't even met you in person until. Um, well what was that your no vacancy show I can't mike was that august maybe but it was just so fun to like feel this strong connection to you and I we hadn't even met in person and um so yeah.

00:38.48 Diana Merkel I Think it was I know slightly off Zoom Yay! yeah.

00:48.24 kitedart I know so I'm so excited to have you here and agri and we're right back, you know in virtual land today which is fine but I'm always excited to talk with you and um and I'm excited just for I feel like your journey as an entrepreneur has been super rich. So.

00:51.29 Diana Merkel All good.

01:04.81 kitedart I'm excited for what you have to offer to people. So thanks for being here. Yeah so I would love to just start out. First of all, you know you did found p s design. There's been ah, there's been a lot of it's been a big journey for you right? You've been in business a long time. Um I'd love for you to just share.

01:07.10 Diana Merkel Thanks for having me and.

01:17.54 Diana Merkel I Yeah yeah.

01:22.79 kitedart About your business about the work you do and kind of whatever you'd like to share with us about that journey.

01:26.58 Diana Merkel I okay well yeah, it has been a long time and I've been through lots of different iterations of this whole process and company. Ah I started out working as a designer in sort of the agency world a while ago. Ah let's not say ah um just kidding but um I you know it wasn't quite for me and I really wanted to start my own thing. So I I did a lot. Ah I I became sort of a freelance designer for a few people and. Over time grew that into a little more focus on branding campaign designs and hired a small staff down like a few years in and it grew a little bit. Um it was. Were a lot of learning curves along the way throughout that process and I think what I found is I love being a creative um, you know I had a lot to learn in terms of team management and things like that and and I I also felt like. There was more than just design and sort of branding that should be a part of my life as an artist so you know through the work through the work I've been doing over the last probably 4 years or so I've come to. Sort of expand my thinking into more of an experimental art realm doing immersive installations like you mentioned no vacancy um getting more involved in my community and neighborhood and really starting to. Play a bigger role in finding affordable space for artists in the rhino district specifically and you know it's funny because we talk a lot about how.

03:19.67 kitedart Um, and.

03:29.68 Diana Merkel It's like this and that and that and sometimes it's hard to see how it's all connected but I do think like when I explain it as ah, a timeline like this it kind of makes makes sense in a way. Um, yeah, so it's been. It's been quite a journey and.

03:31.39 kitedart I.

03:41.40 kitedart Um, yeah.

03:46.97 Diana Merkel Um I don't know I guess that's that's all I've got right this second but what else what else? do you want? to? yeah.

03:52.69 kitedart Yeah, no, that's great. That's no, that's great. Thank you and you know what that that that brings up an interesting point right? because I know that as you've um, been pivoting or transitioning to some extent into this experimental art realm.

04:08.22 Diana Merkel Sure I.

04:10.16 kitedart Sometimes it feels like hard for you to like um message it and have it land. But you're saying like in the story. It's you're like oh maybe that's making more sense. Um, so I think 1 that's a great uncovering for you just of like however you can bring in that story.

04:23.62 Diana Merkel I yeah.

04:30.10 kitedart Um, might be a good way to get that messaging across in a way that makes it make sense and maybe it's why it's always made sense for me because um I not that I've been there for all of the story but it was sort of like here's this thing and then I've.

04:39.12 Diana Merkel Ah, yeah.

04:48.95 Diana Merkel And.

04:49.12 kitedart Worked with you and watched you grapple with the how to how to transition and how to pivot not to mention. Also you know seeing your Covid lanterns coming to no vacancy like seeing the things that you're doing is like you know because what you're doing is new and unique and different and.

04:57.22 Diana Merkel So right.

05:07.68 kitedart You know you're on that cutting edge of innovation and so sometimes I think those things can be hard to message like I feel that way at kit and dart sometimes like what we're doing is not just like business coach business consultants like what we're doing is something different and and.

05:15.84 Diana Merkel So yeah, yeah, I right? yeah like saying I'm a graphic designer that's trying to change the world like what.

05:26.98 kitedart Even like when we.

05:31.51 kitedart Yeah, yeah.

05:32.84 Diana Merkel How do you do that with a logo but here I am.

05:35.83 kitedart Ah, okay, like totally, but it's it. But it's in the story that it makes sense and you get that bigger picture. So um, maybe there's a cool little uncovering. Yeah yeah, also.

05:42.69 Diana Merkel So yeah, good I'm glad you can get that? Yeah, excellent.

05:52.96 kitedart I Think the other part of it that I would bring in and and I know we've talked about this before though is that the world does like to categorize and compartmentalize and put us in boxes right? and and it's so funny because.

06:02.67 Diana Merkel So yes, yes.

06:10.66 kitedart Very few people fit neatly in any kind of box. But it's what we do and I think as entrepreneurs at least in action. We have the opportunity to to kind of like throw away the boxes and just be with the messiness of all the things.

06:12.35 Diana Merkel That So true and.

06:26.74 Diana Merkel Yeah I agree and it does become complicated right when you're trying to present that to a client who has a very specific problem that they want to solve so they're like you know this is what I need today and you're like here are my services and I think a lot about this.

06:29.35 kitedart Um.

06:44.76 Diana Merkel And they're like whoa that can be a lot so you know finding that finding the client who can understand the whole timeline the whole story and work with you through that is like the ultimate dream right? But sometimes you just have to like chip away at some of the niches that you're involved in and.

06:46.44 kitedart Yeah.

06:56.15 kitedart Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's cool and I think more and more as you do these this experimental work and and look at that intersection between branding and and art and using all your senses and representing things in different ways like. The more examples you have of it the easier it is to just be like here's an example and like you're not limited by that like let's talk about the possibilities here and.

07:24.54 Diana Merkel So Yeah, I. Sure what.

07:31.84 kitedart I mean I know kit and dart. We've had conversations and it's like super duper fun. It's like okay when are we going to make this happen like it's super cool to think about. We do need to revisit that.

07:37.49 Diana Merkel Yeah, absolutely and you know I mean yeah, we can we can speak about a couple of specific examples too. You know you mentioned no vacancy and that's definitely the no, no no vacancy project is definitely more the community involvement you know. Getting artists stipends out the door from the art district. So that people can experiment and play with their ideas and being lucky enough to be an artist that was part of that we we got to really push the envelope on like you said a 5 a multi-sensory experience and. We learned a lot along the way about how to how that works with people and what to improve and what to change and even just how people see your art which was fascinating um and then like on the other side of that coin. There's something like the. Van gogh experience where you know they engaged me as someone who understands how to view brand as an artist who could paint a mural that resonated within their guidelines. So like there's this whole range of like superstructured stuff. Fine art all the way to like highly experimental fine art still trying to like a little bit bridge that gap from Brand all the way to the end game but I do think like of getting a lot closer and that's super cool and.

09:02.10 kitedart Um, yeah, that is super cool that is super cool. Well and I mean I told you right that I just went to immersive Van Gogh last weekend and um.

09:13.14 Diana Merkel Yeah, yeah.

09:19.48 kitedart And then after you know after having worked with you gone to no vacancy like I think my appreciation was even higher I mean it's also super interesting I got to see um 1 of the big van gog exhibits in l a when I lived there and like that was like.

09:22.16 Diana Merkel The her.

09:33.44 Diana Merkel Oh yeah, oh yeah I mean what an amazing artist. Yeah.

09:35.45 kitedart Jaw dropppping phenomenal to see. Ah yeah I mean it was incredible. So I you know, but but but it was it I think my appreciation for the idea and I just wonder from your standpoint if if you do feel like things like that are bringing.

09:49.21 Diana Merkel And.

09:54.84 kitedart Art in new ways and opening up opening up more. Oh maybe opening up other people's minds more about art and art experience. Um, because that's happening on a huge scale with that. Yeah.

10:04.66 Diana Merkel Yeah I would say that's just happening everywhere. Um, you know it. It seems like in general and I'm given I live in an art district. So I'm surrounded by companies that feel the need to attach to finer art. Um, but I do think.

10:21.86 kitedart Um, yeah.

10:24.35 Diana Merkel All over the world. There's an appreciation for true authenticity and creativity and how that can like support um ideas and values of a brand rather than being so structured and and sort of tight with all their parameters. Yeah.

10:28.84 kitedart Ah.

10:40.74 kitedart Yeah, cool. That's super cool. Yeah, um, awesome. Thank you, Do you want to? do you want to share any other examples or do you want to? We can also switch over to talking a little more about the business side of things.

10:44.14 Diana Merkel Yeah, so.

10:56.82 Diana Merkel Um, we can talk about the business side of things that's great, but.

10:59.10 kitedart Okay, okay, um so you you have had such a rich experience as a business owner and so I would love to just ask if you'd be willing to share. Um. You know, not all the things but maybe some of the highlights along the way of of what have maybe been some of the most challenging parts of starting and running your business and then also right at now and Center. We're really looking to be bringing in voices other than privileged Weis White Cis het.

11:22.96 Diana Merkel Okay.

11:34.55 Diana Merkel Sure sure I.

11:35.11 kitedart Male voices right? and so coming out of even from a woman um owner standpoint what some of those those challenges and struggles have been along the way and what you've learned.

11:44.38 Diana Merkel Sure absolutely I mean there are numerous challenges along the way like I can do that timeline based or let's just think about this but in a general way I would say.

11:51.78 kitedart Yeah.

12:02.53 Diana Merkel And I've thought about this a little bit lately is I kind of had this weird weirdly naive approach to things when I was younger where I'm just such a if I have an idea I go for it like I didn't even realize how many barriers. There were to just being a woman in business and I think I've started to see and acknowledge those more recently and maybe that's because I was such a tiny business I wasn't I wasn't operating at a level that had as much of the male.

12:29.18 kitedart You know.

12:42.40 Diana Merkel Dominated like stuff going on. Um I don't know that's a tough 1 but ah so I don't know starting out as ah, an aggressive female artist is never.

12:45.55 kitedart Yeah.

12:58.94 Diana Merkel Easy. But it's like you just stick to it and um I was I was pretty I was pretty Gung-ho Always about like finding new opportunities and working with people that really resonated with me and you know the ones that don't they just kind of. Fall off the radar anyway. So There's this sort of natural way of going about that that I think is really important to focus on um and and like what comes to you is comes to you for a reason workwise. Um, so I Really believe that like. Just continuing to connect and and push all of those relationships in your work is what keeps you on ah a good trajectory. You know the the challenge of that is like if it's not a good Fit. You know how how hard do you want to Say. No or push back or you know I've probably tolerated a lot of things for a while that weren't always in my best interest to be fair working like some insane hours in the beginning because I felt like it was how you keep a client and I've gotten a lot more confident in.

13:59.77 kitedart The the.

14:14.33 Diana Merkel And that lately so that I think that was 1 of my biggest challenges in the beginning was sort of just nonstop working and not finding those boundaries for myself and then you know over time it was like i. Again, going back to being an artist and an entrepreneur I didn't necessarily have any business training So you know I learned what I learned by reading a lot and talking to a lot of people but had I maybe been.

14:39.68 kitedart Um, yeah.

14:51.17 Diana Merkel Done like another major in college of business on the side or whatever you call that then I I probably would have succeeded and in that more businessy oriented way a lot sooner. It just wasn't in my vocabulary to think about ah things like that in the beginning.

15:02.90 kitedart Ah.

15:11.17 Diana Merkel Granted I did learn I know how to understand budgeting and you know how to manage people better now. But I had to learn a lot of hard lessons in in that regard and just even lessons little stuff like um. Are you allowed to have a contractor that works in-house for you where you call the shots on their schedule and it's like no the answer is no legally, you're not allowed to like do certain things when it comes to part-time employees versus subcontractors versus you know all. Full-time people with benefits and ah you know I think that was some of my biggest challenges to overcome when I was trying to grow and and 1 of the reasons why I decided to pull back and have only contractors that call their own shots.

15:58.49 kitedart Yeah.

16:06.53 Diana Merkel And a few less clients and I mean I'm so much happier now with that balance. Um.

16:12.60 kitedart Yeah, awesome. Um, thank you for sharing all that that was a ton I think so interesting like on that last point right? like definitely having employees. Um.

16:16.60 Diana Merkel Yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:27.50 kitedart Even even like you said it sounds like you learned from even just working with contractors or subcontractors like there's a lot of learning there in that scaling piece. Um, and but the 1 thing that I heard that I that I really want to pull out that I maybe that I just really appreciate and maybe it's because me right like.

16:30.60 Diana Merkel And.

16:47.38 kitedart Former Elementary school teacher talk about wanting to put people in boxes I mean not that I wanted to but I feel like school is the place of the right answer and doing things right and following rules and conformity right? that I'm like ah how did I do that for so long I don't even know.

16:47.92 Diana Merkel Spur aha.

16:55.89 Diana Merkel Yeah, sure a hug.

17:06.16 kitedart But like I think that coming from that world the extent to which I've had to like retrain my mindset around um, breaking down those boxes throwing away the rules.

17:14.40 Diana Merkel No.

17:22.35 Diana Merkel Oh.

17:24.47 kitedart Um, not being so confined like I just I it it sounds like as an artist and as a creative that that that creativity and maybe that um habit of being self-expressed through art.

17:40.42 Diana Merkel Aha yeah.

17:42.20 kitedart Maybe contributed to your ability to be like I've got this idea I'm just going to go. Do it whereas for me, it was like I've got this idea I want to do it. But I'm going to have to sit and think about it for a long time and make sure I've got everything just perfect before I go do it.

17:48.69 Diana Merkel Yeah I. I Yeah totally that's fascinating. Yeah I don't know I like you're right though. I've never had the attitude of like I have an idea but I have to like wait on it. I mean I am always pushing. Ah.

18:01.26 kitedart So.

18:12.11 kitedart Ah, yeah, which I love I Love that about you. It's a you're great role model. But.

18:13.70 Diana Merkel Ah, if it's and like they get they get bigger and scarier. They definitely get bigger and scarier every time. Ah yeah.

18:20.35 kitedart Ah I I love that and appreciate that because I I mean I I'm the kind of person who's always seen a lot of opportunity as well. But then I see all the opportunity and then I get an analysis paralysis because I'm like oh my God There's so much possibility and.

18:29.82 Diana Merkel Oh. Sure it.

18:38.98 kitedart I Want to do these things but I I have to do it right? I have to I have to be perfect I have to do it right? I have to get it right? I can't just create and and I'm not saying so much now. But it's taken me a lot of work. A lot of really intentional work to lean into.

18:41.60 Diana Merkel Yeah.

18:49.70 Diana Merkel The.

18:58.70 kitedart Either You can't fail or you know failing is just a way to learn and and move forward which it's ironic because it's what I told my students all the time and it was super hard for them to to hold onto that. But that's because school's all about the right answer. So I've I've had to work really hard on that.

18:58.97 Diana Merkel Right.

19:04.83 Diana Merkel Yes, yeah.

19:13.31 Diana Merkel And right.

19:18.41 kitedart That did not come naturally for me.

19:18.51 Diana Merkel Well, it's interesting. No and it's interesting. What you say there because like along with the expectation that let's make some crazy stuff happen I have the expectation that it will happen and that's where my perfectionism I think comes in as like a really stress it causes.

19:31.16 kitedart Yeah.

19:37.33 Diana Merkel Massive amounts of stress for me because I'm like you know I had this idea. It's got to play out this way and and it's a crazy idea so like like it's ah, a little bit on a different side of things doesn't that make sense. Yeah yeah.

19:49.26 kitedart Ah, yeah I think so let me just meet you. So what I'm hearing is like what you're saying is that the perfectionism is still there and I know we've talked about Perfectionism before Perfectionism can still be there, but it's not. It's like the idea is there. The spark is there.

19:55.62 Diana Merkel Yeah, oh sure sure.

20:05.80 Diana Merkel And I according to the yeah no, it doesn't stop me from acting it just it just causes stress in action.

20:07.84 kitedart You're like let's go. Let's do it I know this is going to happen but then also the pressure that it's perfect in the outcome but it doesn't stop you from acting? Yeah yeah.

20:24.31 Diana Merkel Yeah, and.

20:26.71 kitedart I think I've had perfectionism on both sides I like perfectionism that keeps me from acting and then I've also had perfectionism that that gets in the way in the action because I I want it perfect in all of the places. Ah.

20:27.75 Diana Merkel Yeah, sure I Yeah I Well yeah, um, um, it's It's so funny too because um and we talk about this all the time I think but um. I Feel like when it's my idea for someone else. It's very executable but when it's my idea for me like working on my own marketing working on my own website things like that. That's when I get real tongue tied and like that's where that's where the.

20:52.22 kitedart Yeah.

21:05.13 Diana Merkel I'm afraid to take any steps until I have it all figured out comes into play more for me. So that's that's a challenge too for sure and also it's way more fun to solve other people's problems right.

21:08.58 kitedart Yeah, yeah, oh totally I mean and I think that's true for any of us in business right? Like I mean.

21:19.53 Diana Merkel Sure I.

21:24.80 kitedart Like I literally just had this conversation with someone the other day and I cannot for the life of me remember who it was but um, whatever thing it was I know she was saying she didn't have a website and she has the skills to create her own web website but she's doesn't have her own and I was kind of like good for you because.

21:36.13 Diana Merkel For him.

21:44.54 kitedart Most people think they can't do anything until they have a website and the second they that you know they get their website and then the second they do anything. It's going to have to change anyway because it's just things change all the time and it doesn't really do I mean depending on if you have an e-commerce business. That's 1 thing but for those of us doing the kinds of work we do.

21:45.90 Diana Merkel Right. And.

21:58.29 Diana Merkel Of course. So.

22:03.15 kitedart The website is this credibility indicator. It's this place for people to go stock you and check you out, but it's not like what sells anything? Um, yeah, so I mean I Always think it's like hard to do for ourselves What we do for others and I think it's.

22:06.51 Diana Merkel Oh right? Exactly exactly.

22:19.55 Diana Merkel Yes.

22:21.97 kitedart Perfectly natural because to your point. Yeah, it's it's it doesn't have the same attachment and baggage when it's somebody else's problem. You're working on you know and that makes it fun. You know.

22:29.67 Diana Merkel Right? Yeah and taking taking a hard look in the mirror about yourself is like that you know that's a lot of work. It's harder work. No.

22:40.70 kitedart Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a load there for sure and and I mean the thing is is I Also know you appreciate that and I appreciate that right? like we do that all the time but it's still to then turn around and sort of do your craft on yourself. Yeah, it's um.

22:48.38 Diana Merkel So sure. Yeah.

22:55.27 Diana Merkel So right? yeah.

22:59.49 kitedart There's yeah, there's just another layer I think having having our own supports and help is important. So ah.

23:03.99 Diana Merkel But I do think moving from like brand work and design graphic design specifically to the more experimental side of things I get to put my personal stamp more.

23:19.52 kitedart Um, yeah.

23:20.36 Diana Merkel On the new work and I do think that's been a really great exercise for me over the last couple of years because um, it's just moving into that like different mindset and being more comfortable with your own ideas versus executing just for someone else. Yeah, so get it getting there.

23:36.56 kitedart Yeah, yeah in that Realm I'm curious to know just because we've had conversations about our own experimental project for kit and dart right? and so and those conversations are super cool to me because you've got ideas that I could never imagine.

23:40.21 Diana Merkel Getting there. Yeah.

23:46.26 Diana Merkel Sure was in.

23:54.62 Diana Merkel I.

23:56.48 kitedart And when I think there's a real synergy there in terms of creativity too of like the feeding off of 1 another and I'm just curious that when you've gotten the chance to really dive into that with the client. Um.

24:01.79 Diana Merkel Sure.

24:10.75 Diana Merkel So.

24:14.75 kitedart And if that's if that's because you get to put more of your stamp on it. But there's also like a synergy in the co-creation like is that do you feel like that shows up like yeah.

24:19.58 Diana Merkel I yeah, yeah, yeah and like I can give you a specific example that I don't know if we've spoken about but um, a while back. It was probably a couple years ago I was talking to coop studios up in Boulder. And they wanted to do a mural on the side of their building and they had you know a really solid brand like all their colors and styling and everything was very dialed and I love that about them. They also have a really interesting story so we ended up. Doing a portrait of 1 of their previous owners who passed from cancer on the side of the building rather than the initial idea of like just a bunch of musicians playing like a bunch of instruments kind of collage together.

25:10.85 kitedart Ah.

25:12.85 Diana Merkel Because I was like well that I feel like is more impactful and meaningful to you and there's a reason why we picked that person to put there. Um, and I you know I feel like it turned out great it it it. It has. It has a little more longevity Maybe as ah as a concept at a mural or a little more impact to who's seeing it I I don't know but I I liked the idea of getting like deeper into their brand story and then turning that into art I Thought that was really Fun. So.

25:34.40 kitedart Ah, her.

25:46.52 kitedart Yeah, that's cool.

25:49.44 Diana Merkel Um, yeah, and and also having some of those guidelines So I knew like what the color scheme would be and like what would feel good on their building inside and out and I think it's just you know a little bit of that understanding on both ends and then and Then. Paired with experimentation projection and hand painting to like get get get and result is super fun. Yeah yeah.

26:14.63 kitedart Yeah, oh that's super cool. Awesome Um, no thanks I hadn't never heard that story So that's fun and it has me thinking because I know you have been thinking about doing your own.

26:27.63 Diana Merkel You.

26:32.99 Diana Merkel Right? Sure sure. Ah.

26:33.77 kitedart Art piece for your business in your space I don't want to give it any spoilers away but it does have me thinking about like how you just shared your story in the beginning of this conversation and how you were like oh well when I kind of.

26:45.32 Diana Merkel And.

26:49.78 kitedart Lay out the story chronologically it makes sense like I wonder if um, thinking about that experience with that client your story and as you think about representing p s design like I don't know. Maybe there's a way for you to weave your story. Maybe you already have your design decided I have no idea. But.

26:50.73 Diana Merkel Sure. Yeah.

27:01.24 Diana Merkel So yeah, what's their. Not 1 hundred percent. But yeah, that's a great thing to think about and I do I do I Definitely waffle between like the tightness of my brand versus the looseness of a mural and and how to showcase that for me in a way that.

27:09.33 kitedart Um.

27:17.81 kitedart I have.

27:25.11 kitedart Um, yeah.

27:26.92 Diana Merkel Appeals to like all of my clients and I don't think I think maybe that's not right? Maybe I don't need to appeal to all of my clients in this particular case. Maybe I just need to feel good about my brand and how I'm executing that concept. So yeah.

27:37.28 kitedart Yeah, yeah I would say yeah and and I'd also bring it back to source commitments right? like thinking about I mean which which is part of the conversation and not to be jargony.

27:44.80 Diana Merkel So right.

27:52.30 Diana Merkel Yeah, yeah.

27:53.98 kitedart Ah, for people who don't know what source commitments is but values right? And how we always talk about that alignment and we have I'm not saying that you have clients that don't align to you but but. But the same way we want to make sure that what we put out as a brand aligns to our values and commitments I would say that's the ultimate answer like it's just not about pleasing Everybody. It's about what's an alignment. Yeah.

28:14.14 Diana Merkel Yes, Yep I hear you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah I think so yeah, there's something about like the the like yeah like I have my logo. That's all dialed everything and then I feel like my art pieces that are going to be in this space are going to be a lot more about.

28:28.14 kitedart Yeah, yeah.

28:40.50 Diana Merkel Um, expressions of freedom in a way and expressions of self in a way that feels more free I don't know I'll get there? Yeah, ah yeah, but yeah.

28:43.66 kitedart Um, ah.

28:52.34 kitedart That's cool I can't write to see it. You know that's awesome. Okay, so um, thank you for sharing all that I I do I do appreciate that story and I and I really love that and and.

29:00.16 Diana Merkel Sir.

29:05.98 kitedart That may also help give folks an idea too of like what does this whole experimental art thing mean like you know because um, it's It's not the norm yet.

29:09.99 Diana Merkel Sure, Well yeah, no I don't think so and I think that um you know there there are muralists that think the way I do for sure. But there my my. Understanding and I could be wrong is that the vast majority focus more on their style and their own fine art and they don't necessarily think they get to paint murals where it fits really well. But it's always in their like.

29:47.31 kitedart Death.

29:47.46 Diana Merkel Style I have a little bit more of like flexibility in my design style and aesthetic changing a little bit per client and like I'm perfectly. Okay with that because as a graphic designer I've always done that I don't know that it necessarily puts me on the map as the greatest you know.

29:55.26 kitedart Um, yeah, yeah.

30:07.45 Diana Merkel Insert theme here artist murallist that ever was you know? yes I have a record player painted on the front of my building but I'm not the person who paints music instruments on the front of everybody's buildings. You know I just want to paint whatever works. Yeah, ah.

30:10.10 kitedart Right? right? yeah.

30:21.75 kitedart Right? right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, well and I think that makes it work right? because it it doesn't have to be either or it doesn't have to be.

30:28.90 Diana Merkel Yeah, yeah.

30:35.38 Diana Merkel I Yeah yeah, yeah, and yeah for sure and I mean if we're going to get like into more progressive thinking I would say like.

30:37.72 kitedart That you only do your style or that you only do what they want that like there's a whole Breadth of possibility with I mean it's art. So but.

30:54.72 Diana Merkel 1 of the things we tried to do with no vacancy in the soundome and appealing to all the senses is starting to think about like and I'm no expert in this yet. But I'm starting to experiment with like the accessibility of art right? So if you're someone.

31:10.24 kitedart F.

31:14.43 Diana Merkel Who can't see you can't go experience a whole bunch of paintings in the way that someone else can right? So if you can make a piece of art that that actually activates all senses. Even if 1 of them is.

31:21.24 kitedart Um, yeah.

31:32.56 Diana Merkel Not functioning that the way you know other peoples are can you still get a good sense of what the artist is trying to express and that's a really complicated idea and I know there's people out there that are definitely doing it. But for me.

31:40.72 kitedart Um, yeah, yeah.

31:50.91 Diana Merkel That experimentation and and the feedback from the visitors was like so cool because then you start really thinking about art from a nontraditional perspective I think that's a lot more forward thinking and gonna get us places for sure. So.

32:02.50 kitedart Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no I think I think that's crucial right? Like the we have such a long way to go with all systems of oppression right? and.

32:17.47 Diana Merkel And.

32:21.97 kitedart Ableism is I mean they're all super complicating and take a ton of work. But right like you know, looking at those I know for me that felt like the ableism was a space that I didn't start thinking as much about until.

32:26.61 Diana Merkel So yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:39.51 kitedart Further in my journey of really thinking about systemic oppression. So I think that I think that what you bring up is really really important and um yeah I think it's cool and good school I wish I could have come back for the second the second time of seeing no vacancy but ah.

32:41.60 Diana Merkel And just saying yes.

32:54.44 Diana Merkel So oh it's all good I'm sure there'll be a new iteration of it floating around somewhere soon. But.

32:55.57 kitedart All another time. So yeah, yeah, exactly? Yeah yeah I got to hear about it. But yeah, um, okay so I would love to pivot just a little bit into a coaching conversation and.

33:09.19 Diana Merkel Sure. Okay I.

33:15.00 kitedart Um, I feel like there's several things we sort of talked about along the way that we're um, you know in that realm of learning. But just if there's if there's something that we could have a quick conversation around where I could offer any kind of support and others might be able to learn as well. What is something new.

33:21.91 Diana Merkel Okay, so.

33:28.96 Diana Merkel I mean I I Definitely think we touched a little bit if I'm recalling correctly a little bit about like perfectionism and boundaries and things like that if you want to go there I Think that's great something you can talk about for sure.

33:38.90 kitedart Yeah, yeah, okay yeah, so tell me so so what we talked about before right was that that you've had um, you've already had a lot of learning and ways that you've.

33:53.23 Diana Merkel And.

33:56.46 kitedart Um, come along on this journey in terms of maybe not not getting wrapped up in the perfectionism and setting those boundaries. So like there was an old iteration and now you are where you are like what's next for you in that realm. Where do you still.

34:01.15 Diana Merkel The who.

34:15.60 kitedart Where are you still working with it.

34:15.88 Diana Merkel You within the within the idea of Perfectionism or just within the idea of work and oh gosh Yeah, like so yeah.

34:20.98 kitedart Yeah, oh ah, well really for you? What but like you know because if I think about right like for me when I think about coaching right? It's like Okay, what's next right? so.

34:37.90 Diana Merkel So right right? Ok alone. Sure sure sure sure.

34:40.28 kitedart If if like I know you've already made a ton of progress in terms of how you relate to perfectionism and how you set boundaries which we've had conversations in the past of how those can be tied together. So when you look at the progress you've already made right? like I mean that that's kind of done right? You've already integrated some of that. What's the next? yeah.

34:57.74 Diana Merkel Yeah, yeah, Oh yeah, yep, Yeah, oh I Totally know. Okay, so the the next thing is recognizing where your perfectionism comes into play right and challenging that. By giving yourself something to do where you have to not where you have to let that go. That's I think the next step in like making sure you're doing good and in that regard I don't know for me, it's like set yourself up for another big idea.

35:23.21 kitedart Ah.

35:35.41 kitedart Ah.

35:36.74 Diana Merkel Um, maybe take a little bit more of the control out of the equation and let it um, end up where it's going to end up and like that's huge, right? But if you can get there then um, you got it. I think I don't know.

35:54.91 kitedart Yeah, so do you have 1 Do you have 1 of those things for you like do you have 1 of those places where you're um, taking on that next big step and maybe you're grappling with.

36:07.44 Diana Merkel And oh yes, of course I do with.

36:13.10 kitedart Um I don't know if you're willing to share about it or not or like just if there's any you know any any conversation we can have around it that helps you be able to do that for yourself more easily. Maybe.

36:19.90 Diana Merkel Yeah,, that's okay, sure Yeah, that's a great. That's a great question. Um I think so I don't I can't get into too many details about it. But I am I am pitching a concept where I'm sort of. The 1 who came up with the initial thought around it. But I also realize I have very few of the abilities to pull it off. Um and it's a big.. It's a big community art type of event. Um, so like.

36:51.55 kitedart Okay.

36:59.20 Diana Merkel In this case, The only thing I can do is trust the people who are experts around me to um to make this happen you know and that's that's a little bit of like picking the right people and having faith that you did. But then you have to let go of your original vision enough to let it truly grow in and allowing those experts to do what they do because it will evolve. Your idea is never going to stay what you thought it would be in the beginning. But.

37:26.70 kitedart And.

37:37.44 Diana Merkel Highly likely if you can let it go. It'll be better. So um I know that sounds super vague in everything but it's just because I don't want to talk about the details yet does that make sense.

37:43.66 kitedart No, that's fine. Yeah, so as you yeah, it makes perfect sense. So as you go through this process like what can you do to set yourself up for being able to do that without it causing major stress or anxiety or whatever.

38:00.55 Diana Merkel And yeah I think I think for me I I thought pretty hard about the title and the role that I wanted to play in the in the presentation and the pitch and um.

38:02.46 kitedart Body sensations.

38:10.70 kitedart Ah.

38:17.15 Diana Merkel Making sure that I didn't position myself as the expert that I was more of um, not a coordinator a facilitator of the idea. So um, yeah, let the experts do their work I Guess ah.

38:26.84 kitedart Yeah, yeah.

38:33.30 kitedart Yeah, yeah I love that it's so interesting because I feel like and and again we've had a relationship for quite some time and done a lot together. So I like but what I hear that I'm really appreciating is like um.

38:41.14 Diana Merkel Sure sure.

38:51.34 kitedart A couple things 1 is like back to that alignment right? and we talked about the values alignment but there's also an alignment to our skills talents you know aptitudes passions right? and making sure that the work we're doing is in alignment with that and so.

38:54.37 Diana Merkel He said. Ah yes, um, sure.

39:08.82 kitedart So many of us again back to our school system right? We've been trained that we have to be good at all the things we have to with to be good at everything you know, individualism right? Do it yourself. You be independent and so part of what I'm hearing is that you're just really leaning in.

39:12.72 Diana Merkel Um, yeah, yeah, um.

39:25.49 kitedart Even if it feels hard and saying this is not my this is not my piece. You know my piece is this and this is for others. Um.

39:29.74 Diana Merkel Yeah yep, yep yeah and I I truly I Truly think that your ideas can be bigger and bolder when you get to that stance but it's real hard. It's.

39:45.42 kitedart Um, yeah, yeah I think the other piece is is like and and maybe this goes with alignment but also it's just that intentionality right? I hear in what you're saying and your process for this has been.

39:49.67 Diana Merkel I Don't know it's been real hard for me. Yes.

39:59.62 Diana Merkel Yes, yes.

40:04.19 kitedart Really taking the time to take the step back like to not just do or push through but to take a step back and be super intentional and thoughtful and kind of just that leaning in about what's aligned. What's not what feels right.

40:08.42 Diana Merkel Yeah.

40:13.87 Diana Merkel So is gonna.

40:21.10 Diana Merkel Yeah.

40:23.00 kitedart And then also just like maybe it's I don't know if it's self talk or what what you would call it but of reassuring yourself that even if you want to take more control. You know it's going to end up better this way and just trying to just kind of let go and trust that.

40:35.79 Diana Merkel And yes, exactly yeah trust is a big component of that I think and and you know like like I said you might have this idea and it might not come out.

40:42.38 kitedart So yeah.

40:52.36 Diana Merkel Exactly the way you thought it would and trusting that the experts are going to get it to at least ah as good of a place and and embracing that messiness along the way like it's not going to go from a to Z in the exact pattern or plan that you thought it would.

41:03.42 kitedart Yeah.

41:12.90 Diana Merkel When you envisioned it and when you envisioned stuff I mean for me, that's the way I think I'm like a to z I already know how this is going to go I know how it's going to look in 5 years um I know how it's gonna be embraced by the community. All this stuff. That's all made up in your head right? like.

41:28.41 kitedart Yeah, yeah, wait you mean it doesn't always happen that way. What? Ah yeah yeah I love that So like trust the process embrace the messiness.

41:31.77 Diana Merkel Ah, so let's he just I mean yeah, finally finally realizing this? Ah yeah, that's yeah yeah I mean you've been telling me those for 2 years

41:47.28 kitedart Right? Like yeah.

41:51.50 Diana Merkel And finally you' learning. Okay.

41:54.90 kitedart Ah, all good. All good. It's it's it's kind of back to the same thing of like my ability to coach myself versus my ability to coach other people to different things. This is why I have my own coaches and consultants. So I love it.

42:01.71 Diana Merkel I touch. Yeah, exactly exactly? Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay, sure sure.

42:10.70 kitedart I love it and I learned from I learned from my clients. Ah all the time. so I love it okay so I'd love to ask one last thing um if you don't mind before we close out and this is kind of just a quick. Um. It's not rapid fire because it's not like it's multiple questions but just a quick answer of would you share with my listeners. What entrepreneurial activism means to you and I'm totally putting you on this out here.

42:33.10 Diana Merkel Oh geez. Um, yeah, oh gosh I Mean we've talked about this quite a bit too. But but for me, it's it's it's kind of using everything I've learned as an entrepreneur over. All of these years to try to find my place in creating a better world. Um I don't know it sounds so simple. But I think that's what it is and and if you can figure out what your little thing is what your little positive contribution is.

43:00.21 kitedart Yeah, yeah.

43:12.40 Diana Merkel And if lots of people can figure that out then every everyone's going to elevate right? So I think I think that's that's kind of in a nutshell how I feel about that.

43:16.33 kitedart Yeah.

43:22.67 kitedart Yeah, no I love that I like I'm a fan of keeping things simple because you know we we find ways to make them hard enough all the time and complex. So simple. Simple is a good thing I love it.

43:26.54 Diana Merkel Yeah.

43:33.91 Diana Merkel Yeah, sure oh.

43:36.64 kitedart Um, well thank you so much for being here with me I Always love Love Love every conversation I've ever had with you. Um, and um, maybe just real quick. We'll put links in um, you know in with the the episode. But if you can just tell people the best way to engage with you or to.

43:50.14 Diana Merkel Oh okay, so. So yeah, probably the best way is when I'm taking snapshots and just posting things casually on Instagram I'm just at p s dot design. All all spelled out p s d o t design and you know I have a website that needs. Update.

43:55.39 kitedart Check out what you're up to that'd be great.

44:13.47 kitedart We won't talk about that. Yeah yeah.

44:14.98 Diana Merkel Just kidding. Ah, that's also it yes God designed it. It's got some great work on it. But it's just some a work in progress always and yeah feel free to share. Whatever whatever else you like that's great.

44:28.12 kitedart Awesome! Great! Well thank you so much Diana I Wish you the best and thanks for sharing all that just all that you are with us.

44:31.82 Diana Merkel Yeah, thanks. Oh Thank you so much I Appreciate being here.