Empathy, Authenticity, and Imposter Syndrome with Syah B., Founder of Syah B. Consulting

00:00.47

kitedart

Hello everyone and welcome to date to today's session of now and center I'm so excited about my guest today. This is just one of my favorite humans that I feel honored to have ah gotten to know and get to collaborate with and in some multiple capacity. these these days it's really fun. Um I'd like to welcome Saya B.

00:22.55

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, was a a care is so good to be here.

00:26.71

kitedart

I Yeah well thank you for joining me. We've been talking about this for a while. So I'm glad that we are finally doing it. Thank you so much for being here. Um I will um I'd love to call out a few of the ways that we do collaborate because I think it's kind of fun that um.

00:35.43

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, yes.

00:45.41

kitedart

There's just been a lot of back and forth. Ah, we met well we just met through Nate right? I think Nate introduced us and we've done some work together where I've done some consulting and coaching work for you. You have done some facilitation work for us at kit and dart which is amazing. I also just recently got to um work with you through the building bridges program. So it's just really fun that I feel like I'm getting just all these multifaceted views of saaby and and all of the cool things going on. So thank you for being here. And I would love to just um, start out and have you share about saabbee consulting tell us you know what? what work you do and and you know you can because I know you do a lot of things so feel free to bring in any of the cool things that you're doing in the world.

01:23.50

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Knows.

01:39.50

kitedart

Um, and really share with us the difference that you're making.

01:43.36

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Yay! Well, you know we be out here in a vow. Whatever so hey, everyone my name is saya my pronouns are she and they take your pick do as you do. Um, and as Karen said I run my own business called saya be consulting because she be consulting. Okay and that is a diversity equity and inclusion consulting business that I started. Ah, February of 2021 so we've been going strong for a year. What 3 65 girl. What a time. Um, and ah yeah, so with in that right I have my own kind of model.

02:15.65

kitedart

So great.

02:25.90

Syah B_ _shey_they_

That I've coined a deep dive de I diversity of and inclusion and to me the root of that or the basis of that. What that means to me is I feel like when folks are getting into social justice work. Or are trying to learn more about social justice trying to learn about diversity equity inclusion accessibility. Whatever you want to throw into that acronym. Um I think a lot of times it tends to be very surface level. So ah, you're walking into a 1 hour workshop let's say and they're just kind of really regurgitating a lot of information towards you which you know. Knowledge is power and what tends to not happen is that personal integration of those concepts and so what ends up happening is folks aren't really truly living these this idea of what diversity of and inclusion could look like right and so ah, deep dive de to me is. About getting beneath that surface and really getting to the root of what connects us as people right? and to be able to see each other's humanity and there's empathy involved in that there is ah personal reflection involved in that there's a lot of hard emotional personal work that goes into this work that I think people miss. Um, and so I bring it in that perspective I bring in that nuance and I have 3 main services that I do workshop style presentations. That's the typical workshop you know I'm gonna come in I'm gonna say some stuff but also I tried to lead at least 1 activity. That's going to change the way that folks. See themselves and each other um and again, right, it's about getting deeper than just here are some terminology right? But how how should I see the world differently because of this terminology um group facilitation which can take place in a. Affinity space and if you don't know what affinity is affinity is just this idea that we are sharing a specific identity together right? So a bipoc space is an affinity space. A white space is an affinity space a straight space is an affinity space. A queer space is an affinity space right. Ah, everyone is having something in common that they're gathering over and we're able to kind of talk about specific challenges to those demographics. Um, and then we can also do a dialect space which kind of have everyone has everyone involved right? So it doesn't really matter what your identity is We're really talking about cross-cultal communication. Um, and really trying to develop empathy on both sides. Um and those type of situations are really unstructured. It's really meant to have folks be heard and have an opportunity to explore different topics and ideas in a constructive way in a restorative way.

05:07.66

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Then the last thing I do which is probably the most exciting thing is what I call empathy coaching empathy coaching is a series of coaching sessions that I have usually with leadership either in 1 on 1 or group sessions where we're going to be doing some really intense work. We're going to be unpacking your implicit biases. We're going to be training you on empathy skills. We're going to be getting you to understand the nuances of social justice concepts and how they look in your environment whether that is personal or professional and really the goal is to get leaders to again. Understand the world differently and connect to people in a more authentic way. Um, that allows for folks to be able to divert to talk about their needs to um, allow folks to feel. They can be honest, right? and to really create a. And also to inform ah leaders on how they can change their business practices. Um, so that they are being more inclusive um in a constructive way. So yeah, it's it's been so cool to go through that process with folks. Um. And yeah, that's kind of my services in 1 fell swoop. Um other things that I do you know she can't just be doing 1 thing. She got to all? Um, so I'm currently on two boards of directors.

06:27.70

kitedart

No, and then.

06:33.11

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, one nonprofit is known as ah, joy's resistance which focuses on Lgbtq Mental Health um and specifically trying to give youth Lgbtq Youth Um, more access to mental health services right? So one of the cool things is they have a mobile clinic that travels around.

06:44.97

kitedart

Um, well.

06:50.81

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, and meets people where they are so that you know if you are in a space where maybe you can't access a counselor who is eligbtq affirming that you can have access to one and then my other organization is envision. You envision you focuses more on substance youth within. Substance use in the ltbtq plus community but they always have awesome programming going on whether that's behavioral health training to make sure that people who provide medical services are inclusive um in their practices right? Um, whether that is ah how to have the talk so actually talking with parents and youth. About how to have conversations around gender and sexuality ah in a restorative way. Um and just and they also have a lot of policy initiatives. They are very active in a lot in lawmaking policies and lobbying and things of that nature. Um, so those are 2 organizations that you can definitely go check out and support donate show time donate your money donate what you got you know what? I'm saying um and then last thing last thing is I'm also a member of what is ah or yeah I'm a part of a community known as ballroom.

07:45.80

kitedart

Ah.

07:57.78

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Ballroom is a queer and trans people of color ah scene that was created um, late 60 s early 70 s as a opportunity in space where queer and trans people of color specifically to be celebrated for their beauty and their talents. Um, so it's kind of functions like a pageant in a way. There's a category you get prepared for your category and you walk it and you have the potential to win trophies in amazing cash prizes. Sometimes you never know girl. Um.

08:24.45

kitedart

Um, um.

08:27.65

Syah B_ _shey_they_

But to me, it's more about the community aspect and the family aspect so you join typically folks will join a house at some point um in the houses your chosen family There's like a house mother a house father usually. Um, and those are the people who are kind of giving you guidance in ballroom but also it should extend outside of batten to you know, living as a queer and trans person of color in this world. Um, and what does that look like and how do you have confidence um in everything that you do. Um, so yeah, that's kind of the th thresholdsh. Oh and in those 2 categories that I walk is runway. Do you walk like a model. Do you look like Naomi Campbell um in vogue fam which is a style of dance. Um, not to be confused with Mo Madonna's vogue I guess she was kind of. Involved. Ah, but really the root of where that comes from is from queer and trans people of color and there's a true art form to vogue and there's technicalities and things that you really want to make sure you're doing to honor that art form. So that's me in a nutshell. Um, yeah as I'm just super grateful to be here.

09:17.43

kitedart

Are.

09:32.50

kitedart

Yeah, well thank you for sharing all of that I love it. Um, it's it's so funny. Actually I don't know why I never thought about this before when when we've had other conversations but you know even just those 2 nonprofits that you're on the board of like.

09:34.50

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

09:49.73

kitedart

I didn't know about those when I was a classroom teacher and I'm like oh my gosh I So wish I had like every every school needs to know about that because you know we had you know I've had different students along the way or you know my my colleagues did and it's like just to have those resources So I'm like okay.

09:53.38

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

10:09.60

kitedart

Just note to self. How do I like who do I need to connect with to like get that more out into the world right? like So I've definitely seen so many different ways that that parents I mean but part of it was that I was thinking about the parents right? but.

10:14.54

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Oh.

10:25.94

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

10:28.41

kitedart

But even you know like 1 1 situation comes to mind. Um when you're where we had a trans student in third grade and like their their family was very supportive but just the way like. Families of the class that they were in hands like we were not well enough equipped for like ah yeah anyway, I'm just ah, really appreciating that. So.

10:45.44

Syah B_ _shey_they_

A a.

10:56.21

Syah B_ _shey_they_

No, and as someone who grew up as nose should be too cute. Youth Let me tell you it's terrible just get out there and it's real and now I think that's a big thing that a lot of folks and I've had clients um like let's say it's you know a summer camp and they're trying to be gender inclusive.

11:01.18

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

11:15.76

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Typically the youth aren't the ones that have the biggest problems and in your case right? Third grade. They're not even thinking about right? They don't even know what sex is they don't really know that gender is an option right? They don't really these things aren't concretely defined for them yet. Um, and so really, the outrage comes usually from older folks who are trying to ah have some sense of control over what their child is exposed to the problem being is like you. You don't live in this world in a vacuum right? Everyone ah and there's.

11:43.43

kitedart

Um, yeah.

11:47.28

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Yeah, so I just totally understand and having those resources is so important sometimes having the resources enough right? If you can know how to where to direct people for good information. Especially if you're not the person for that. Um, then you know have your arsenal ready.

12:00.68

kitedart

Yeah, oh so True. So True. Um I'd also just like to call out on the ballroom thing right? So I went to see you perform and like literally. That's probably been the funnest night out I've had in the past like ah, stay tell and right because I was like ah yeah, yeah, it I have not been out that late but I wouldn't.

12:17.11

Syah B_ _shey_they_

And you stayed out I'm so proud of you if you know nothing about ballroom. Okay, you were in for a night. Okay, we left I think at four a m.

12:34.25

kitedart

Date. It was so fun. It was so exciting like I I would love to just like you know when you're talking about the families and stuff and the inclusivity and it was just nice like the work you do the work I Do we are working to create an inclusive world where.

12:50.84

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E.

12:52.47

kitedart

We're working to create a world where all identities all humans are valued right and I feel super lucky that I get to be in spaces where people are committed to that like and it doesn't mean we're all perfect with it. I'm not like I know I screw up like whatever but I I feel like I get to be in spaces a lot with people who are really committed to that and then I you know, go out of my house and there's yeah.

13:22.46

Syah B_ _shey_they_

I to go to this and I to run I Remember there's other people.

13:27.95

kitedart

There's the rest of the world right? Yeah right? But I I just felt like it was just radiating in the space that night and it was super cool. Not to mention like physically impressive like in terms of just you know the.

13:35.25

Syah B_ _shey_they_

And.

13:47.32

kitedart

The sport of it. The act of it like it's in and the excitement and oh it was so much fun. So can't wait for the next one? Um, yeah anyway I just want to call that out because it's It's truly amazing. Um, and then I suppose we're here to talk about business. So but.

13:47.58

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Missing. Um, you know at some point.

14:06.36

kitedart

So maybe we'll talk about that a little bit. Um I guess but I you know when you were when you were sharing about what you do? Of course I know what you do, but 1 thing that I was I was curious to hear you talk about a little bit is like to your whole point with deep dive dei this isn't a. This isn't the the one and done this isn't the workshop right? like I feel like I feel like ah people want the quick fix. They want the let's just do a workshop or we have it every year we have a you know 2 hour training or I mean it's ridiculous like it's such a journey.

14:41.14

Syah B_ _shey_they_

In here.

14:43.46

kitedart

If you in in your with your experience and I this is probably just an unanswerable question but I'm an ask it anyway like if if you if any organization was wanting to take on this work like what how long would you.

14:51.50

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Who knows.

14:58.36

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

15:03.39

kitedart

Like to work with them in an ideal world to really see the change that you want to see and I know that depends on the organization but like can you talk I know it does because it's just like yeah I'm so curious.

15:08.36

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Oh it does. But I heard you saying right? is yeah um so I would start off with for me as a consultant and when I'm coming in or someone is coming to see me. Um, in their initial consultation that one of the first things I'm doing is assessing for what challenges they're facing. Um, what they're hoping to get out of a workshop What they're hoping to get out like what is your? What is your goal as you understand it right? and this is one of the challenges. Of doing this type of work specifically and I think any consultant will probably say this it doesn't probably doesn't matter what field is that clients don't necessarily have the best understanding of their own problem. Um, and that's a really hard sell right? is.

15:57.41

kitedart

Ah, yeah.

16:03.83

Syah B_ _shey_they_

It's really hard to convince someone that actually you don't necessarily know all the answers right? and ah, that's real so something that I'm doing I'm trying to understand as much from their perspective of you know what is kind of bringing them in right? What's the main thing that's bringing them in today I just had a client a potential client meet with me and they. Kind of started off around. Ah they had a you know trans employee that ah people were misgendering people were harassing like they wanted to do something around gender and sexuality. But really when I started to unpack some things more and more and more there were actually additional problems that weren't being addressed right from the forefront. Right? And so right that 1 problem actually spoke to a plethora of problems and the the the underlying need of that is something deeper and what I don't think a lot of organizations realize is. That there are what I call kind of 2 pillars around this work in dei where we have the policy side and the policy side is what really attracts people people really want the quick fixes. They want the policy to be written. They want um to fix their hiring practices. They want to hire more diverse and ah diverse folks. They write There's all of these things that they they want to have a jedi statement that they can put on their website. They want they want to have a action plan for how they're going to respond when the next George Floyd happens they want kind of a roadmap as I've heard before right? and that's all well and good. But there's also a cultural side. To this work and the culture or side is actually setting up an environment in a workplace culture that's going to embody those policies right? So if you have a policy for example on hiring practices but you haven't done the work to actually unpack your own implicit bias around different identities. Different ways that you value different things that you value when you're looking for an employee then the policy is going to be all for not because you're not actually having an environment that is going to support that policy right? So ah. For me I'm on the cultural side right? I am invested in organizations truly shifting and becoming something different right? not saying that you're going to do everything differently, but the way that you see the world and interact with it is going to be so different. Um, that you're going to make just different decisions because your eyes are more exposed and so um, sometimes that's a hard sell but right where I'm asking folks to make a long term commitment in my coaching series. For example I require 10 sessions right? That's not just so you can pay me all this money is because.

18:32.31

kitedart

Yeah.

18:43.51

Syah B_ _shey_they_

It actually takes time to a trust me as a facilitator. It takes time to trust your team that you may be with um, it takes time to be honest, it takes time to integrate these concepts in terms into your life and practice all of this stuff takes time. We're not solving racism in 2 hours we're honestly not solving it at the at the end of this 20 hours together right? And that's not necessarily the goal either. The goal isn't to find a solution. The goal is to become more aware of what's going on so that way we can have greater choice. Of how we choose to dismantle our society or dismantle white supremacy within ourselves and in our organizations or even in our families right? I tell people that this work is personal so that's a very long-wined answer. But but okay because you know we got to build up.

19:26.80

kitedart

Ah, relatable though. So like yes yeah.

19:33.32

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Anyway, um, so if someone comes to me and they say that they just want to do a 1 hour workshop I will do right I will do just the 1 hour workshop whatever for a couple of different reasons one I understand that a you're making a commitment when you're signing up with a d I consultant or a coach of any sort.

19:39.28

kitedart

Right.

19:52.31

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, and if you're if I'm asking you to do something long term with me I think you should have an opportunity to see what I'm about so I don't mind going in to do a one off workshop to kind of give you a hint of what this is what what I can bring ah and I'm very honest from the beginning that this 1 hour workshop is not going to solve your problems It's only going to give you the tools to get started. Um and then you still have work to do that's the gate that's that's the key um and so for me ah I would say that my desire length of time or my favorite length of time is that 10 session Mark actually of coaching with leadership specifically. And the reason why is because again there's a long term commitment being made and it provides enough time for things to hit the fan right um around session 4 or 5 is when no for real right? but round session 4 or 5 is when finally something in the organization happens that everyone's like oh how do we deal with this.

20:41.43

kitedart

Um.

20:50.32

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Right? And instead of freaking out you actually and you may freak out but you have a dedicated space that you know you're going to come see me, you're going to come sit with me and you and you trust me enough to tell me about what's going on in your organization. So we can problem solve that together with the information that we've already been working on. And so it gives folks an opportunity to actually try things out and do things differently and make mistakes. Um and you need that time and space. So I would say and that can last around like five months but ah. I would say the longer that we can work together the better because first of all social justice is super broad. There's a plethora of things we could talk about you're never done. Um and so a lot of and yeah, so truly we can work for as long as possible. But. I would say if we can do some type of long-term series together. We can really make some changes and again it's not going to be me making the changes. It's going to be that you as a leader of an organization are going to be more aware of what's happening around you and you're going to start making those choices for yourself. Um, right, my goal is for you not to need me, you will because things are going to come up and I want you to be able to hand lake I have organizations that are changing their hiring practices and that had nothing to do with me right. But I was the one that was kind of just guiding you guiding them on what implicit bias can look like and how it shows up for them specifically and so yeah.

22:17.60

kitedart

Yeah I love that I love that well and and I definitely you know I mean I work with quite a few Dei consultants and I do see that where it's like they get people who are just asking for the policy change and you know it's just so superficial I mean there may there might be a commitment there.

22:31.52

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Me.

22:36.66

kitedart

And it's not going to get the change that really needs to happen. So I appreciate that I mean in my own journey around identity and anti-oppression work. It's like I I went through leadership program in college right? 9092 to 9094 right like and.

22:39.67

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Exactly.

22:53.39

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, will put.

22:56.47

kitedart

I Know way back in the day you know and then it's like I kind of lost track of it in in the survival mode of being a teacher and all of that and you know I started back up with my own development work on this in 2018 I think and have been continuously doing. Work and it yeah to your point. It's not ever done. Um, and I feel like there's the internal work isn't done and the external work is definitely. But right? yeah.

23:23.78

Syah B_ _shey_they_

We ain't even started if you started with the internal that there's no way you can get to the external because what are you? What are you basing it on right and I think from to your point. The reason why can be really performative is because I think people are sometimes operating from this level of fragility.

23:32.87

kitedart

Yeah.

23:43.52

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, in the sense that oh something's wrong I'm uncomfortable or I feel like I'm you know you know, whatever that is, but there's some kind of discomfort that comes along with either not being seen as the person doing it right? or whatever it is that kind of. Convinces folks that ok ah, the only way to absolve myself of these feelings of guilt or resolve myself with these feelings of Inadequacy is to just do something and I tell my clients all the time you should be doing something right? You should just throw something against the wall see what happens see what sticks and. Part of that doing something has to be an internal investigation. It can't always be external. Um I think people because there's not an outside external impact of doing self ah of doing self work. Ah that people kind of get discouraged or don't see it as valuable. Because we're looking for tangible options or tangible results rather. Um.

24:38.14

kitedart

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah I got that right? No I Think that's so true it it kind of like I know that you talk a lot about authenticity and this has me thinking about how? um. Yeah, I'm just kind of thinking about empathy and and authenticity and when you're talking about that fragility. Um, it has me thinking about ah how so often the way we react to things right? like it's really kind of more like we're always looking in a mirror.

25:10.94

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E.

25:12.72

kitedart

Right? And so we see things in the mirror and a lot of times we react to that right? and so like if we are judging ourself for something then we're gonna turn around and judge others. Also right.

25:26.10

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E.

25:29.81

kitedart

And whereas if we can look in the mirror and have empathy and compassion for ourselves. We're going to have more empathy and compassion for others. Um, and and ultimately to your point That's where we're going to actually get the results but it doesn't look like.

25:37.45

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Period.

25:48.10

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Ah.

25:50.43

kitedart

It's like it's like you know we're so we're just so focused on on the policies and on the rules and on the outcomes that it's like the process gets lost along the way. Unfortunately, yeah.

25:58.89

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, well yeah because when you're talking about policies and and those and I want to be very clear right? Those things are very important right.

26:09.73

kitedart

Yes, yes yeah.

26:11.85

Syah B_ _shey_they_

We're not saying that those are not important and we're saying that they should come as a result of this internal work that has been done right? Um, and so it's just yeah, y'all are kind of doing it out of order or you're not even doing them together a lot of times that personal piece gets lost because that's the hard part. The hard part is actually sitting.

26:23.70

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

26:31.29

Syah B_ _shey_they_

With ourselves and sitting in the discomfort and sitting with the fact that we've harmed someone right? That's really the hard part of this work. Um, but it's really truly fundamental and foundational to the work and. When I'm working with my clients for example, especially in coaching. That's the first thing that we're talking about The first thing we're talking about is self-care. The first thing we're talking about is your own individual needs. We're talking about how to see yourself with compassion because as you just said you have to be able to give it to yourself in order to give it to someone else. Um, and to understand that deeply enough within yourself to give it to someone else. Um I've had clients for example, where ah he they ah you know were stressed out. They were having a hard day. There was like a deadline they had to meet for this whatever project they had to work on. And it simply was just not getting done. They didn't have the motivation. They didn't have the energy and they talked to you know their team to say hey I'm actually can we like move this deadline a little bit I need a moment of reprieve I just need to go out I just need to you know be a human for a second. Um, and right when a leader is able to do that that grants people permission to do that. You know across the board in the organization right? and I think that is the magic of really figuring out your own authenticity and your own needs is then you understand that everyone else is going to have their own context and needs and.

27:44.83

kitedart

Yeah.

27:57.40

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, you can actually be more connected to other people right? because you're now more connected to yourself.

28:01.46

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, it really gets back to that human humanizing piece that you talked about in the beginning I Love that? Okay so I'd love to switch gears a little bit. Um can I Just acknowledge you though and just say thank you like I I love.

28:06.89

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E. Dismiss rates

28:19.62

kitedart

That you're doing this work in the world like you know it's very comforting to know that you're doing this work in the world because it needs to be done and that the way you're doing it and it's it's interesting because I Maybe it's not interesting, but. Kind of to that piece of authenticity. It's just that like the way I see you show up over and over in all of these different contexts that I've you know, been around you. It's like you just bring it always and and it's just it's really inspiring. So Thank you.

28:38.48

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, in.

28:48.76

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, a.

28:55.65

kitedart

Yeah, so um, okay so switching gears to businessy a little more business-y on the other side of things right? Most of my listeners here at now and center are our entrepreneurs. Our consultants our small business owners and write like. It be tough right? and and also not like I don't want to set it up that it has to be you know in your first year you you've had you know it's such a great first year I think I'm I'm so excited for the the first year you've had um. But I'd love for you to share if you're willing a little bit about you know what what some of the struggles have been in the first year of business.

29:38.96

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Yeah, 100% well it is a journey and um right I think I left what you were you were kind of hitting on of you know it's hard and it's it can be really rewarding race of both and um and I think that's with with any situation for me.

29:51.77

kitedart

Yeah.

29:58.12

Syah B_ _shey_they_

I was so I moved to Denver in 172 for grad school. Got my degree in counseling psychology. Um, got it got the job with you know the benefits and I was working in a nonprofit and making you know making a difference in the way that I thought I could and that was amazing. It was good and then the pandemic hit in. George Floyd um became you know a household I don't want to say household name that sounds weird but George Floyd became you know, very we got a he got a lot of attention in the media right Um, and black lives matter started to.

30:28.19

kitedart

Yeah.

30:33.14

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, have a bigger platform and people weren't misconstrued and people were misconstruing it. But more people were on board with the movement right? And so now we have this really huge uprising of calling for racial justice racial equity and everything like that and and. That was something that within the organization I was in that I was really wanting to push for more I just felt like we weren't serving our black community that well um, and there were ideas that we could have had it wasn't working out I got really frustrated and it got to a point where I just wasn't really even happy anymore. I. Wasn't excited to do work at a point I kind of stopped responding to people's emails. Um, all of that good stuff and so really starting my own business was never something I foresaw i. Only was like my only frame of mindset was that I need to get a new job with similar benefits and try to keep my income rising and so I was applying to jobs and I was doing that for a little bit until I ran across my friend Leander who says. Ah, he was on a panel that I was facilitating and then afterwards I'm like hey I'm looking for a job. Um there's my resume pass it on. He's like um I don't see you working for nobody else. But when you raise such your own business. You let me know and I was like excuse me say what are you talking about? who is this man? Um, and. Um I was in the process of interviewing I was in the third interview round for ah this job as c boder and didn't get it. Um, and so I was like well but I don't really have any other options because I'm really selective about where I want to work. Um, and so I was like well I didn't get that I got none else going on. So let me see what this man is talking about and that may have happened I don't want to I want to say like August or September of last of Twenty twenty um when I met and yeah and he just kind of got me started on. You know this is how you set it up. This is. You this how you get your yeah e in this is how you register with this secretary of state I have a few friends helping me out in a lot of different ways eventually made my way to kit and dart um to get some ah coaching on that end. So I feel like I had a lot of people around me that were really believing in me and. Also cheering me on right being able to say ah don't even be worried about it. You are just going to go out there. You're going to kill it. It's gonna be everything um and it wasn't until after I started my business that someone told me that typically entrepreneurs who are starting a business typically don't see significant profit margins until like.

33:14.22

Syah B_ _shey_they_

The second or third year maybe um and so I didn't know that so I had quit my job in like February yeah I pretty much I'm February and then I hear it doesn't lot. Well I guess we got to get ready to starve. Um.

33:14.25

kitedart

Da.

33:25.39

kitedart

But.

33:28.80

Syah B_ _shey_they_

And I think for me the one of the biggest challenges was just simply getting started um and getting started in the sense of not even like necessarily having the idea having everything set up is more of the getting started of. No, this is something that you're going to be doing yourself. Um, and that you are going to create yourself and getting into that mindset is even different right? It's different from working a 9 to 5 you are your own boss. You are the only person accountable for you. Um, no one is coming to make sure the deadline is met. No one's coming to make sure that all of your ducks are in a row it all relies on you which is empowering and stressful all at the same time. But I think starting out the biggest challenge for me was just my own um imposter syndrome right. Um, and um, yeah, so I for example I think one of the biggest things people are going to struggle with as an entrepreneur is your pricing right? is especially if you are actually equity mindset and you.

34:35.62

kitedart

Ah.

34:37.64

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Don't necessarily value money the way that capitalism says you should value money. Um, pricing can be really really challenging because you're wanting to at least for an I'll speak from my perspective I wanted to have a pricing structure that a paid me to where I could live but also like made sense and. Right? I didn't and ah it was only because of friends and kinder saying up the price up it. What are you talking about just up the price like you are worth it right in having seeing my own value is very important. Um I don't know I think. The huge part of why things went so well is just because of my reputation and the way that I network in having so many people putting my name out there. Um and allowed even fastest but even going into those initial conversations getting my first coaching clients ah was a challenge because in a way I'm trying to. So this idea of dei and I don't have a certification right? I just have all these years of experiences right? and so how am I selling that right and especially doing it on my own for the first time I was nervous of are people going to take me seriously.

35:37.11

kitedart

And laugh.

35:49.87

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Are people going to think I'm worth the money that I'm trying to charge are people going to get upset with me once we get started and they're like ah this is terrible right? Ah, um, and so and you know people are very hesitant to spend their money on stuff. You know that's real right? And so. Ah, but at the same time I feel like I've had a few experiences before that I wanted I didn't want to feel like I had to super like I don't really usually talk about like my ah qualifications or my stature. Whatever right. More so I want people to listen to me speak hear the ideas that I'm giving hear the suggestions that I'm giving and they can make the decision of oh my goodness this really resonates with me. This is actually really impactful for me I want to work with Saya and so I love what you said before about my authenticity. Thank you for that.

36:43.00

kitedart

Ah, yes.

36:44.73

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, but I think my authenticity is ends up. What's what is is what really sells me um, is I model what it looks like to be yourself in code switch and um, still be intelligent and you know challenge. Ah, people's thought processes and not being afraid of conflict right. Um, and doing it all in a way that's connecting right? Never in a way that is causing Strife for just this sake of Strife Um, So the biggest challenge is definitely just finding my own value and trusting in my own value. Um, and it's still a challenge. But.

37:20.50

kitedart

Awesome! Oh so much. So first of all, thank you Leander if you happen to be listening yes, ah lovelyder. Yes, yeah, right? Well, it's so.

37:22.12

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, but we're getting better at it.

37:29.61

Syah B_ _shey_they_

But ok Leander Leander consulting services y'll better go ahead and hit him up conservationist go on.

37:40.19

kitedart

Funny because my first business. Um I don't know if I've told you this, but this is my fourth business kit and darts my fourth business. My first business was somebody just being like oh you should do this thing and I was kind of like what are you talking about and then it was like ah yeah, hey you know and that was my first business I ran it for 6 years like I i.

37:43.28

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Who.

38:00.13

kitedart

Closed it up just because I was done with it. Ah, that chapter was over you know, but like it was it was successful and got me what I wanted and um, so yeah, it's so funny. How like sometimes it's just that one little thing where you're like oh so I Love that? um.

38:00.28

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E.

38:12.84

Syah B_ _shey_they_

A.

38:17.83

kitedart

Gosh There was so much in there that was really great I would love to pull out a couple things. Um one the mindset right? It's so so so true and it's It's such a big part of the work that I do with people is that the mindset of being an employee is not the mindset that will serve as well as entrepreneurs.

38:34.35

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E.

38:36.71

kitedart

But we have been conditioned right in this capitalist culture to have a worker mindset. So like that's a that's a it's a lot right? It's not. There's a lot of unlearning and relearning I think it's very much tied to white supremacist culture patriarchal culture.

38:41.88

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E.

38:53.28

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Ah, 100%

38:56.45

kitedart

Right? All of that and and and it also very much lives inside of a capitalist society that wants to produce people who will go be good workers. Um, so I think that that's such a huge.

39:06.56

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

39:13.84

kitedart

It's such a huge hurdle for a lot of people I think the whole issue of self-worth is so important there too right? and imposter syndrome and am I good enough and self-doubt and self-worth and self-value and all of that as soon as you start asking people to give you money it really like.

39:33.12

Syah B_ _shey_they_

M.

39:33.50

kitedart

Stirs that all up so and you know it's honestly though, it's a why I love this work so much right? Just like with you in your business and how you're working with organizations to create an organizational change but it starts with.

39:39.10

Syah B_ _shey_they_

And.

39:52.39

kitedart

Ah, personal like I think being an entrepreneur is one of the most transformative things that a person can do if they're so inclined right? like hoof. It's confronting. So I oh like gosh you know and and even.

40:02.44

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Ah.

40:10.82

kitedart

I mean you you really did have an amazing first year and I just want to kudos to you because a lot of you know, a lot of businesses take 2 or 3 or five or ten years to make it. You know it is this whole idea of an overnight success is kind of a crock of shit most of the time right? It's like nobody sees the.

40:25.36

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Oh 100%

40:29.97

kitedart

3 years of struggle leading up to it. So just I but but I but I think too is that you did you started this business in such an intentional and aligned way and that's why I think that you were able to have. So much success like what you're doing makes so much sense because of your life experience because of what you know because of what you're great at because of how you bring that authenticity. It's it's huge, right? If you were not showing up as an authentic empathetic human who. Is really committed to justice and inclusivity and all of the things it it wouldn't work so so smoothly and so you've you've had that alignment and I and I just would call that out for people that the alignment to who you uniquely are as a human is what. It's like what gives you the best shot at it working and I think your evidence of that. So I think it's awesome. Yeah well I mean you've been intentional right? You were. It's not one of those like I'm just going to do something you know.

41:27.91

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, ah, thank you? Yes and and that's one of the advice that I give to people not just if you're trying to start business I think even young folks who. You know are trying to figure out what they want to do and what they're going to do with the rest of their lives and and my biggest thing too is always follow. Always follow your passion right? regardless of where you are in life and regardless of how you have to do it right? I was volunteering in this kind of work facilitating conversations for like 10 years

42:02.74

kitedart

Grab.

42:04.17

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, and that was no pay I didn't get paid until I started kind of doing similar work at University Of Denver as a student. Um, but right even before that that's like 8 years of me just kind of doing so much. Ah, yeah, so you know doing I think. Part of that is and I think this is where a lot of folks can get a little I know I think a lot of folks want to jump into things which is real and you have to have some of that experience to back up right? and it needs to be and that's I think that's a part of what makes it so authentic is it's work that you would do. Anyway, like it's work that it's work that I personally would I would do this work 100 % for free but now I need to I got to pay bill so listencha don't let me get on television either because then the price really going. Ah.

42:42.99

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, so up those prices. Yeah I love it? Well Ah yeah I.

42:56.15

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Listen, but.

42:59.42

kitedart

So true. It's so funny when I started ascension my other business. It's like I was doing leadership coaching and I was like I'm gonna I think I'm go a coach corporate leaders. You know like and I did that and I was just like oh like these are not my people like and and so I think that.

43:11.15

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, corporate hard.

43:18.63

kitedart

You know, um I Guess what you're saying is a little bit different because it was still coaching was still the thing but it was like so it's so it's not only the thing that you're doing and have you done it. But it's also like doing it with your people doing it with those aligned people people who care about what you care about. Because those corporate people didn't care about the same thing as me and it was like what am I doing like and I wasn't the biggest service to them and it it wasn't particularly fun for me. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:39.55

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um e.

43:45.62

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, and that's real. Everyone is not your client.

43:52.31

kitedart

So important which you said earlier and I so appreciate that right that when you are being who you authentically are and you're putting yourself out there people are free to choose and not everyone is your client so they might as well know who you are and what you're about and what you do to know if you're the right fit for them.

44:06.77

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Because why would you quit your job start this whole business just to be miserable again.

44:12.21

kitedart

Yeah, so True. So true. Okay, thank you for all of that I was very juicy I think there was a lot in there. So okay, so now here you are a little over a year in and you're moving forward. And you're looking at what's next so I would love for a quick coaching conversation to dive into something that you're grappling with now.

44:35.68

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, yes, what let me see. Um, so right now I think I'm in a place. Ah, it's it's 1 thing that I've been super fortunate about and um. I think this again goes back to I've been volunteering I've been doing all this work. Um, and so my network is just abundant in love and appreciation. Um, and so I think most of my business. Well not I think most of my business has been word of mouth. Um, so I'm not the best of social media I know girls be I don't know girls be the acting like I like really be on social media I don't think so I don't I don't post that often. Ah, my business page is is it exists I have an Instagram app Facebook do we post anything on it now. Ah, do I have an email Shane. No um newsletter. No ah um, so blog. No. So um, one of the things and so that's been really positive right? and it's actually really reassuring that my base of my business right? How I'm mostly making my money.

45:30.34

kitedart

Fuck. Yeah.

45:49.20

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Is coming from folks who have just simply heard about me either through the gra vine or I just had a consultation today with someone who I think they just happened upon my website and like wanted to just chat with me. Um, right? and I think there's a few things to that one. Um, you know. Always be mindful who love how you're treating people and how you're interacting with those because you never know who and not again, not everyone's your client. Be you every single time but you know be mindful of how you're coming ah into spaces because you never know who's going to give you that referral. Um, so there's that piece to it.

46:10.18

kitedart

Yeah, yeah.

46:25.12

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, and word of mouth is a great way to get business. But I feel like there is room and opportunity for me right to expand that right? if I'm already getting significant business enough for me. Um, at this point simply through word of mouth Then? What would my impact be if. I Had a greater brand presence either on social media or in the world. So That's something that I've been trying to figure out um is just how to expand the presence of my brand and get myself more out there. So more folks know what I'm doing um and I can stay booked and busy. But.

47:00.38

kitedart

Yeah I love it. Um, so first of all I'd love to just call out something. Um you know I'm calling it out but but I mean here's the deal is that you know that that.

47:10.19

Syah B_ _shey_they_

The Queen a calling out baby I live.

47:19.43

kitedart

That me that kite and dar Nate like the where we're coming from is that we don't want. We don't want our clients to sit back and wait for word of mouth to work for them right? and it's part of it.

47:31.10

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

47:36.66

kitedart

Is a matter of how are you cultivating it right? Like how are you because there can be okay when I started ascension my other business I was going to like networking events all over the city and I was I thought that that's how I was putting myself out there and and I'm not going to say there was anything wrong with that. It was.

47:51.75

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

47:55.90

kitedart

Fine I didn't know what to do I didn't know how to build this kind of a business or that kind of a business I should say um, but I took a lot of I took a lot of action but it wasn't effective. It wasn't strategic. It It was sort of what I saw everybody doing Okay, you have to network. Great I'm gonna go to networking events and we're all gonna be stabbing each other with our business cards. This was obviously precovin right? and I'm they're trying to sell me shit as much as I want to sell them shit and right and it's It's just like. That's not very effective right? It could be effective for some people it just depends right? But there's a strategy to it. So I think just the the one thing I'd love to point out is that yes like I completely agree with you that I don't want you to only be relying on word of mouth and there are so many things that you're doing in the world. Where you are taking action in a meaningful way to create the possibility and the opportunity of word of mouth right? So being on two boards even things you're doing within the ballroom community right? I know you you had a you were speaking on a panel recently and.

49:04.67

Syah B_ _shey_they_

And true. Yeah.

49:06.32

kitedart

And I think that turned into some work. So so I think that people can get can can get too narrowly focused on what that means in terms of of the strategic plan. Okay so I do want to call that out and and we've talked about this before but just calling out that that those.

49:15.47

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

49:26.37

kitedart

Actions that you're taking are part of your brand visibility now I don't know how much you're calling out saebe consulting so that might be the one opportunity of making sure like clearly not as you're you know as you're as you're voguing down the.

49:30.99

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

49:45.23

kitedart

Runway. Ah.

49:46.20

Syah B_ _shey_they_

I'm booking down the runway with my business card here. You go a you be so cut.

49:54.00

kitedart

That's hilarious. Oh my God So you know so not that but like you know in those other Contexts You know you may be thinking about how can you be bringing in sayabbe consulting as um and it and it doesn't have to be gross right? Some of it is just even in the the.

50:11.43

Syah B_ _shey_they_

E.

50:11.75

kitedart

Conversations the relationships you build. So so that's just 1 thing and 1 opportunity and also I'd love to just say that I love the way you're approaching this question even about how do I increase my my brand visibility because if you're having if you're making this impact. Without really taking a ton of without a ton of effort so to speak then what could your impact be if you actually were going after it harder and and I think that's great because to your point money isn't everything to entrepreneurs like us like yes, we.

50:37.73

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

50:48.79

kitedart

To pay our bills and I'm actually quite a fan of having a decent amount of money in the bank. So I can do the things I want to do and it's not just about that and so looking at the impact is the is the way that I feel pulled into growing my business. So I think it's the right question.

51:02.20

Syah B_ _shey_they_

He.

51:08.80

kitedart

Secondly or third I don't know what how many points I'm on here. But um so I'm gonna just give it to you straight of what I think so this is consulting moment how often I'm I usually put on my coaching hat more but I'm gonna um I'm gonna put on my consulting hats.

51:15.91

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Oh give us a straight Karen. Read me for filth.

51:27.35

kitedart

And I'm going to say I really think you should start your podcast. Yeah like today. But you've been on but I mean but you're so like you're a good writer because they've seen your writing and.

51:30.32

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Like today. Ah.

51:47.20

kitedart

I Don't think you like to do it as much as you like to talk.

51:52.19

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Ah, that's so that was she read. That's so cool. Ah, and.

51:53.74

kitedart

That's not a criticism either me too right? And you're so well spokenken. You're so good at it right? I think I think a podcast is like ah your weight because you already. Do some of it too right? like you, you do a lot of speaking things you do and we've talked about the speaking thing more more public speaking someday getting paid public speaking I think all of that. Um, and I know we've been talking about that already. So I think I would continue looking at public speaking a. Ah, podcast I think is a little bit of a longer play. But I think that it just plays on your strength so well and can I call out since we were talking about our friendly Andrew Lacy I've been thinking about this now and center podcast since 2019 and I didn't start it until 2021 and I still write like I'm just in that launching phase and so it's to me right now and this is probably me totally projecting so pardon me projecting but it's like you know when's the best time to plan a tree ten years ago I really wish I would have just started this.

52:54.25

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

53:00.74

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Ah.

53:07.84

kitedart

Damn podcast when I started talking about it right? like it's just it is kind of a longer play. Um, but I just think it would be a great platform for you to to have more of that brand recognition and then.

53:22.26

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Who.

53:25.24

kitedart

Last thing I'm going to say and we've already been talking about this as well before but is just um, you know what? what do you have to do to to leverage I think I think you need an email list I'm not saying you have to make a newsletter but an email list is really really valuable because you own it whereas you don't your social media.

53:43.78

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

53:44.69

kitedart

And like you said you're not I'm not saying don't be on social media right? but like where can you hire things out so that you can do what you're really great at which is talking to people working with people having relationships with people affecting the way people show up in the world.

53:57.92

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

54:02.54

kitedart

There's my ¢2 ah so right? and some change. Yes, so I don't know if you have any questions or follow up comments from all of that.

54:02.68

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Okay, and then some and some change. Yes, so I would say my main question because it sounds like the podcast is the main thing that you really want me to get on. Um, yeah, how what's what it's what can you walk me a little bit through the process of what I should be thinking about in terms of starting a podcast ah because I think that is the other thing to write is podcasts. I think podcasts 2 are becoming a very 2022 type of thing. The 2020 s I feel like everyone is listening to some type of podcast which makes it a platform that you know makes sense right? Everyone's using it. Everyone people are more attuned to listening to a podcast especially since they're so widely available usually.

54:42.89

kitedart

Yeah.

54:55.69

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, and so what is your advice for kind of there are so many structures of podcasts and so many ways podcasts ah function. What is your advice um for me about and maybe you don't necessarily have an answer. Maybe it's like ah say I go reflect on this. Um.

55:00.44

kitedart

Ah.

55:15.11

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Right? But she's like yeah ah, but yeah, what? what's kind of your advice for someone who is wanting to start a podcast on how to stand out from the abundance of podcasts. There are out there.

55:24.67

kitedart

Um, right? Oh That's a great question So There's gonna okay I do want to amend my answer a tiny bed because. I Think speaking period right? and this is a thing we've talked about like speaking period for you is how I want you connecting with more people. Okay, you've got some great things to say so any kind of speaking is what I want you doing? secondly.

55:40.71

Syah B_ _shey_they_

School.

55:57.11

kitedart

Um I will also call out that starting a podcast is a lot of work I probably made it way more work than I had to because that's just evidently how I roll and thank god I'm gonna give a shout out to Karen Hibner thank god for her because like she's.

56:05.51

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um.

56:14.87

kitedart

Helping me get out of my way and I it just wouldn't have happened without her. She's my producer so possibly hiring someone who knows what they're doing to help you? um but but here's the answer to your question is that I do think it's about it's got to come from you.

56:23.50

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, ah.

56:34.59

kitedart

Right? Um, and and part of why I'm calling it out is just because of our last conversation where you've actually I think already got it half built in your head am I wrong. Yeah, so that's. Part of it. That's part of why I'm calling it out So again I think you need to be doing public speaking period and podcasting can be a great platform for that I think that how you stand out is authenticity I think we're back to the same thing and so what is a way of doing a podcast that sounds fun to you. That allows you to feel pulled into it that will help you to shine in the way that you want to? Um, I'm sure anybody who is listening right now is like oh she is a great speaker. She's got something to say like so so. Created around you created in a way that works for you. That's fun for you that allows you to be you and that allows you to shine and um is just really authentic to you.

57:41.00

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, thank you carrying? Oh now I'm sure it sounds like an action plan type sit you is what are all the steps reciding a podcast.

57:45.10

kitedart

Yeah I mean that's not a ton of the nuts and bolts. There's you know there's more nuts and bolts and you know, Yeah, yeah, and honestly, yeah, yeah, and honestly I mean it's it's it It literally like. I Got tripped up with some stupid shit that I'm sure you wouldn't get tripped up with it was just silliness and whatever and I just had to get out of my way like but um, you know there might be different things that would trip you up. But I I Regardless I think any of the any of the speaking that you do I think people. Think people having access to the human that you are and seeing how you roll how you show up hearing what you have to say like that's how that's how I think you can really build your audience and get more leads. And and keep doing all the things that you're doing and maybe just looking for those opportunities to be like oh yeah and saab consulting right? and bringing that in. So Hopefully that's helpful. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

58:49.43

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Um, okay, awesome. It is thank hearing always reading me to filth child I live for it.

58:59.51

kitedart

Okay, um, okay so before we wrap up I have 2 more questions for you. They are both super quick. 1 is just a quick answer on what does. Entrepreneurial activism mean to you.

59:17.70

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Oh That's a quick answer I'm playing ah entrepreneurial activism to me is about redefining the way that you do Business. You can't control air everybody else in this world but you can control how you do it and by you. Shaping how you want to run your business and how you want to do it in a way that's true and authentic for you and affirming and healthy for you is going to shape what is possible for other folks. Ah for me when I started my business The number one thing that I knew off the bat regardless of anything else that happens. I am prioritizing my rests above anything else. But I if I ain't go do none else. It will be sleep. It will be.. It will be that it will be relaxation because I feel that in this capitalist Society. We get so drawn into.

59:55.27

kitedart

Ah.

01:00:09.42

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Work work work work work that we forget that the whole reason why we're working and grinding so hard is to enjoy the life that can come from it. So I think it's really important to have that balance. But I think as an entrepreneur is up to you to figure out what is. Your way to do business differently and to reimagine business.

01:00:27.98

kitedart

Love it. Thank you Thank you? That's great and I love it again. Bringing in the self care so important. Um, okay, so then the last question is I will put all of this in the show notes but will you share with folks in case, they're just listening How can they get in touch with you.

01:00:43.40

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Period yes, if folks of y'all looking ah to get in touch with me or you even want to refer someone to me the best way if you want to first of all get more information about me is to go straight to my website deep dive DIDotCom from there you can learn more about my services. You can learn more about me as a person. Um, you can also schedule a free 45 minute consultation and then that consultation again will just be kind of unpacking your challenges was bringing you to seek di consulting for yourself or your business. Um, and we'll go from there. Anyone is welcome. Um, to do that. Um, you can also email me directly if you have a specific question or inquiry. You can reach out to me at http://sayabbe.consulting at http://gmail.com um, also you can follow me on the Instagram's at deep dive d I um, in same on http://facebook.com and those are the best ways to get in touch with me.

01:01:50.50

kitedart

Fabulous! Fabulous Fabulous I I just strongly encourage anybody who is really committed to being on this journey towards anti-oppression towards inclusivity to to really. Reach out to sayh think about how you might be able to work with her. Your work is amazing. Saya I am so I'm just so thankful to to consider you like a co-conspirator a friend an ally thank you so much for joining us on now and center.

01:02:21.32

Syah B_ _shey_they_

Of course, thank you so much for having me I appreciate it so much Karen.