Shifting Power, Regenerative Recovery, & Scaling with Julianna Nelson, Founder of Phillinnova

00:00.12

kitedart

Um, hi there Julianna welcome welcome welcome yeah I I am I am so so so happy for you to be here I know I already shared this with you. But.

00:02.88

Julianna

Thank you Karen I'm so happy to be here.

00:13.49

kitedart

This is the first episode of now and center and I absolutely wanted you to be the first person to be on it because I feel like we have been in this journey together for so long I think it's been 3 and a half years or so now that we have been partners collaborators and really just working together. Um on our businesses in our businesses and. So it means a ton to me to have you here today. So thank you so much. Yeah, awesome. This will be fun. so um so yeah now in center right? We are here to talk about business and really the whole idea of this podcast is for.

00:34.90

Julianna

Oh thank you I'm honored honored to be the first. Yes, thanks. Thanks.

00:53.11

kitedart

To get some new voices out there around business sharing how we're doing things differently. Um, really centering some voices that have been on the margins historically within business. So I would love for you to start out. Um, sharing about your business. And you know, tell us what fin phil enough is about the difference. You're making whatever you know parts of the story. You'd like to share with us today.

01:20.27

Julianna

Yeah, thanks. Um, so I found I'd fill Nova in 2015. It was really a side hustle at that point I was following my passion which at that time. Um, was really focused on corporate Social Responsibility. So How can we encourage and inspire companies to engage with nonprofits I had been working in the nonprofit sector for a while um and over time I Flipped. What I was doing I left the nonprofit sector went full time into filanova and really focused on supporting the nonprofits themselves to help primarily with fundraising and development but that has morphed over time because fundraising is such a. Big piece of the organization and ninety percent of communication coming out of a nonprofit is fundraising even though it's not asking for money. So now I really focus on how to activate Teams Nonprofit teams to work. Together. Um, equitably to build collaborations with all stakeholders. So All voices are heard within the organization because that has been something that's been omitted So as I've learned and grown. I've tried to infuse that into my work with my clients.

02:51.56

kitedart

Awesome! Thanks for sharing and it's so it's so funny I love hearing you share that. Change that shift that you've had because it totally takes me back to our meeting right? and it's like early 2018 I think it was February of 2018 I came to kit and dart as a client. And I remember just entering that room and you know we we were doing the cohort program and just being like oh my gosh I have people like I had felt so alone for the first you know. However I don't I don't even know how long it had been at that point I mean I started my business that my other business in 2016 but I was still working. But once I left that job. It had been a good nine months or so and I just remember the isolation and coming into that room and meeting you and the other folks in there and just feeling like I have people I'm not in this alone. But then also you sharing that story just brought me back to how much has changed since then like I hadn't really thought about that because we've been on this journey together and I'm like oh my gosh it really is so different I had ascension and now I am you know I still have that but now I'm here at kite and dark full time and. And you have really shifted your focus a lot. So thanks for the little trip down memory lane.

04:10.45

Julianna

Yeah, yeah, it's been fun to to be on the journey with you for sure.

04:17.70

kitedart

Yeah, so I'd love to ask you to share a little bit more and you know this is like insider information that I'm privy to but I would love for you If You don't mind to share a little bit more about this equity lens that you that you bring and I think it's just absolutely. Ah, the the direction things need to go not only in the nonprofit sector but in a lot of Sectors. So Would you mind sharing a little more about that.

04:42.22

Julianna

Yeah, um, so really through my work with Kitentart I was introduced to you know social justice work on a new level. Not just reading about it but but learning and applying that to my life which I'm super grateful for. Um, and I I am sort of a non nontraditional consultant when it comes to nonprofits because I believe that scarcity is toxic to nonprofits and operating on this you know, just barely getting by and we can't spend money that is not a good. Business platform no business whether you're for-profit or nonprofit. Yes, you have to make great choices. Data informed choices. But it shouldn't be based on fear and Scarcity. So that's kind of the foundation and then the next level really is. Examining. Ah the concept of white saviorism and and how nonprofits were developed and how are we truly instead of you know I really I dislike the word charity. Um I think that. I consider myself a philanthropist I call myself a revolutionary philanthropist in that I'm interested in not just short-term ah fixes. Um, which sometimes are necessary right? Emergency response to to. The the horrible building collapse in Florida and natural disasters. We need emergency relief that is 1 thing but to really focus on solving the problems and how are we working with the community and um. Really I don't even like the word empowerment sometimes because that implies that I am giving power. But how are we helping communities to use their resources that they have. They also have the solutions. So how are we shifting power to these communities so that um. We're solving the root cause of the problem sometimes that um also involves policy work. So really, my work has shifted to encouraging organizations that I work with not only to provide these services and programs. But how are you helping to tear down oppressive systems and help be a part of building new systems that are equitable I think every organization should have um, a written equity lens. Um.

07:34.25

Julianna

I'm working on that with I'm thrilled to be a part of the alliance centers Recovery coalition. Um, and it's a regenerative recovery coalition and we're doing work on regenerative business and and really examining what lens can we apply to our work. And that is transferable to any business really having questions that are embedded into the work that ensure that we're coming up with the most innovative and equitable solutions not just an easy fix. But was a long answer to question.

08:12.30

kitedart

No, it's great I mean I think it's absolutely fascinating I I just so appreciate your commitment and and again I've i've. Been part of the conversation along the way or part of seeing what you're up to and seeing how that's shifted and and I really appreciate I want to acknowledge and just really appreciate the the level of commitment that you've had to to bringing this equity lens to the work that you do because I think that. It's a really big issue and it's something that I've heard a lot and I'm always like but you know what are people doing to change it right? like it's really to me always about the action. Not just talking about it. So I appreciate that a lot. Um I'm curious.

08:57.41

Julianna

Thank you.

09:03.68

kitedart

When you think about doing that right because you're a small business and you know when you have a nonprofit you've got you've got the staff. You've got the there's a lot of stakeholders. You got the staff. You've got the volunteers. You've got the Board. You've got the. The clientele. Um, there's already a lot more potential for bringing in diverse voices and I know who usually thinks that they have the power or should have the power and you're trying to really change that but as a small business for you. How are you making sure that you are also getting those like diverse voices for philanova.

09:47.63

Julianna

Yeah, great question. Um I am not an expert by any means I am on this journey of discovery so there's a couple of points here I would say. I've never been at this place in this business before because my business is growing and evolving and so when I look for um, mentors and ah advisors I really try to look at. Um, connecting with folks who represent the people who I'm serving and to me that's not just the nonprofit teams that is also the community that those organizations are serving and so I think it's. I also have to ask myself those same questions through this equity lens and um so you know I right now it is I have 1 person that works with me part-time I'm definitely in a place to scale. Um, but I'm really mindful of who do I want on my team. What kind of organizations do I want to collaborate with For example, you know, kite and dart is a great 1 you share my values. So that's an easy 1 but if there's projects or opportunities to work with some organizations i'm. And definitely using a different vetting process. Um than I have in the past to make sure that there is alignment because if there isn't I'm not going to do my best work and they aren't going to receive what they need if we're not in Alignment. So. I guess you know that that's how I'm approaching it right now.

11:43.80

kitedart

Yeah, got it. Got it. No that makes sense and I love that because I know you're all about collaboration. That's 1 of your big commitment. So um, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, um, so here's another question for you like.

11:48.73

Julianna

I But it.

12:01.80

kitedart

In thinking about that like whether it's for filanova or you know for the nonprofits that you work with I Love this idea of bringing in the voices of those who are being served and and not being the savior and and trusting that people may actually know how to help themselves. Ah Wow like what a concept you know and getting their voices in the room and in the process and in the organization and I'm curious when you think about the nonprofit world and you've got um.

12:20.89

Julianna

Um, yeah.

12:34.60

kitedart

You've got some staff who are being paid Sometimes you have a board who's being paid probably more often than not, you don't but then you're you're bringing in the stakeholders Those who need their services and you're trying to get those voices in how do you do that without exploiting those folks.

12:54.73

Julianna

It's really listening not listening to respond like I know what's best but really listening and learning what does this community group of people person family depends On. Um, the organization listening to what the needs are what their ideas are ah talk about marginalized voices I mean they could be screaming from the rooftops in some cases. This is what we Need. We don't need this. We need this. We just have these are the barriers to get this. Um, that is what is important to sort of put ego aside and and assumptions aside and expectations aside which in a nonprofit there are some sort of. Unvoiced expectations sometimes from donors and and really connect with the people that are being served. Um so that they are truly getting what they need and if we're doing this right programs and services are going to change. Over time. We will not keep doing what we've always done which many nonprofits do because as 1 piece of the puzzle is solved for for you know. For example, I'm working on a project right now a workforce development project for hospitality to help ah provide skills and training and not just skills and training but business the ah some opportunities to really? um. Take that and run with it whether they want to work for someone or start their own business. Um in the hospitality industry because we can't find staff. Um, and and I think it's really looking at. Okay, once we solve this problem What other what other challenges arise is. Housing an issue is transportation. An issue is childcare and Issue. So Really not.. It's I think broadening the scope in some ways and that's not to say an organization has to solve all the problems. There's other collaboration I mean. That is my commitment that um we bring the right people in the right roles into the project to make sure that it's comprehensive and a total solution.

15:34.26

kitedart

Awesome! Yeah I'm sure that there's places where there's a lot of pushback I mean I'm sure you get clients who were well aligned and interested in this as well and I'm sure you meet resistance a lot as well.

15:50.70

Julianna

I think so um, you know the nonprofit industry is sort of it's it's fascinating to me as I've started to explore regenerative business practices which is really about looking at the whole ecosystem. So you know how is this. Organization operating as a whole and are we leaving everyone and everything in a better position than we did before we started this project for example, um, and in the nonprofit sector. We are very sort of magnanimous about how the good we do in the world which is true that nonprofits do ah um, amazing work. But employees are often complain of being overworked underpaid not enough resources turnover is really high. That tells me, we're not taking care of our own people and so there's this imbalance there that how do we bring things more in Alignment. So that the folks who are doing the work are also feeling. Um. Inspired energized like they're being taken care of and there's definitely a hole there to fill.

17:07.68

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, you know I have a background in education and I feel like there's a lot of similarities in education and the nonprofit world in some of those ways of how people are treated and taken care of and valued.

17:20.66

Julianna

And the and the biggest pushback right away is we don't have the resources. We can't do that. It's not good stewardship and that's kind of where I bring in this challenge of I invite you to look at this a different way and kind of from a business lens. This isn't good business.

17:33.77

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

17:40.70

Julianna

Here's what turnover costs you. So what? if you invested in you know, really making your staff feel engaged excited Fulfilled um would that outweigh the cost of withholding that you know.

17:58.90

kitedart

yeah yeah I love that that's 1 thing I do love about your approach and and I'll call out the blender here right of that whole idea of blending you know, best practices and innovation in business as well as in the nonprofit world in for profit and a nonprofit and that that these 2

17:59.31

Julianna

So.

18:05.22

Julianna

Below.

18:19.40

kitedart

Sectors can learn from 1 another and there again. It's kind of back to like either or right like we tend to be so either or thinking in our society and putting things in boxes and compartments and this is how nonprofits behave this is how for-profits behave and that that doesn't.

18:35.72

Julianna

Yeah, yeah.

18:36.13

kitedart

Have to necessarily be so so I really appreciate that. Yeah, okay so I'd love to switch gears a little bit and I'd love to just talk a little bit about your experience as a business owner I'm super curious to hear what? um.

18:41.45

Julianna

Yes.

18:53.56

kitedart

What's been the most challenging thing for you as a business owner I know there's a million different things all the time. But.

18:57.65

Julianna

There are there are a million things um there's a couple of things I would say the top 3 are um, the isolation that everybody has felt over the last year I think that has been um as a ah you know. I Miss having a team my past ah employment when I was an employee was leading teams and I do that now. But it's not I'm not ah ensconced in that team and so so that's 1 thing. Um I think the other the the. The biggest thing is what I what I mentioned before I've never been in this place in my business before so I don't know what I don't know in terms of scaling. So I've been really fortunate to have the best year I've ever had and I'm grateful for that. And I know that if I want to continue to make the contribution that I'm making I need to build a team and bringing in that equity lens what does that team look like I don't know that I want employees necessarily? um so navigating. Um, just all of those new pieces. Um, how do I build a team that feels I'm all about you've heard me say this a million times I think I already said it today having the right people in the right roles is really important and so bringing. Um the skills in. And expertise in of others that complements my skills and expertise and figuring out how to do that in a way that is equitable and can grow. Um I can't just you know? ah. Hire full-time people though I don't even know if I want to hire a full-time person. How do I bring on a partner who um, you know it's just all new to me so scaling and making sure that I can continue continue to serve at a high level of integrity and. Um, to be mindful of the roller coaster that is the entrepreneurship right? um that in consulting especially um, you know it it. It definitely is a cycle goes up and down and so. I I feel a real sense of um, taking care of my team and making sure that if I build a team that that it's solid and um that they do feel. Um.

21:41.78

Julianna

Fulfilled and taken care of and and a part of something really healthy.

21:45.20

kitedart

Yeah, got it and and you know I let you know ahead of time that part of this was. We do a little a little coaching along the way that there was that opportunity and I know scaling was 1 of those things. So it's kind of interesting to me even that you know. Ah, 1 of the most challenging things that you've had all along the way has been that isolation and not having that team and that that's also 1 of your biggest challenges going forward is I want a team but how do I do it in in a way that's most. You know with the most integrity most aligned like really staying true to philannova and what you're committed to as well as the equity. So Maybe what we can do is dive in a little bit on that and dig around if you're game. Okay, Cool. So so.

22:34.59

Julianna

Okay, I'm damn always with you. Yes.

22:41.88

kitedart

Thanks! Um, I Think what's so I know you've been doing a lot of work on this regenerative stuff and so I guess 1 thing I'd really be curious to hear is just you know I haven't I'm we've talked about it a little bit I'm interested in learning more. And I'm curious to know when you think about what you've learned through those collaborations then the learnings you have like what what insight does that give you around this issue of scaling.

23:10.75

Julianna

Yeah, um, it's interesting because something's coming up for me as you're saying this that you know I think um 1 of the um misconceptions we have or assumptions. Maybe. Um, and I had a conversation with somebody about this last week is that what does success look like right? What does a successful team look like um I don't I think that the way I have worked in the past including sometimes in this business my coping mechanism through Covid was to work I worked way too much. It was not It was not healthy coping but you know I'm human. Um, well that's right.

23:59.74

kitedart

Ah, what else was there to do I don't know.

24:04.76

Julianna

Um, plenty I mean I could I could have spend time on other hobbies. But um I mean and it wasn't all bad right? I mean I I really I'm proud of some of the accomplishments I made but at the same time.

24:06.69

kitedart

Um, yeah.

24:19.93

Julianna

What if this is kind of when I take a step back and remind myself what if we get to decide what success looks like and that doesn't mean we have to work from 7 to 7 at night. What if success looks like um, a team of people. Who this person has wants to spend this many hours and this person wants to spend this many hours and that success So my fear of you know what? if this isn't full time work for someone or what if the business fluctuates and and I can't you know. Fulfill an obligation. Those are the fears that but what if it doesn't have to be like that. Um I Think that's the innovative piece and the the regenerative piece of this is really looking at the ecosystem. So my. My team myself my team whoever that is my clients. The people that they serve what does success look like for all those different pieces and how do we look at this as kind of this living ecosystem and we fit in. Where we fit in and um, that's kind of a refreshing and um, it's refreshing I think to think of business development from that standpoint that it doesn't have to be I don't have to build a corporation.

25:50.90

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah.

25:52.90

Julianna

I Have to remind myself of that I get to choose I get to choose what this looks like for me and my collaborators get to choose what it looks like for them and to me that's a healthier more exciting. Um, more inspiring way to. To build a business I don't know if that answered your question but.

26:10.29

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, well it did and I I mean I think it's more your question right of like how do I scale in a way that works for me and so when you look at it from that lens of you get to define what success means and that success Scaling. You know. There There can be this um preconceived idea that scaling in business does mean I'm going to I just need to get bigger I need to hire more I need to have the hierarchy I need to turn into. Some kind of corporation I you know, write all of these things. Ah you know I need to get it to a point where I can sell it right? That's that's what some people want to do right? So when you think about that you get to define what success means and that.

26:53.26

Julianna

Oh yeah.

27:02.92

kitedart

The way you want to collaborate with others allows them to decide what success means for them. What what does that give you access to when you think about how you want to scale or what you need to do to scale.

27:15.30

Julianna

Yeah I think even it is what a scaling mean? that's that's what I'm thinking about as you were talking and for me scaling is adding new projects. Um, so this workforce development project. Um, really I've been thinking about this project for.

27:32.71

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:32.95

Julianna

Probably 5 years and I'm really excited to explore and really start to to kind of put the pieces together. So I think for me scaling might be.. It's not the number of clients. It's not. I Do have revenue Goals So I'm not going to say it's not about money. It is to some extent but it's also about the results that I want to create um and so that also is kind of a unique way of looking at scaling. It's not. Quantitative necessarily.. It can also be quality quality qualitative and and what um, what projects do I want to work on and who are the people that need to participate in this project. This project will be very different than anything I've ever done. It's really combining my 2 passions hospitality and um and I don't know that this will be an not profit. It could be a social enterprise that is for profit I I don't know yet. So That's 1 of the things I need to to explore but very interesting. Interesting conversation. Here That's giving me a lot of good ideas. Thank you My friend.

28:47.48

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, well um I I think I think the other thing that I'm hearing that's interesting too right? is that? um. And I know like you're you're really multi-talented and you like to be challenged and maybe sometimes that results in you work in maybe more hours than you want to or think you should or you know like I know that whole like. Getting getting reinvigorated and and self-care and that kind of thing and you are also fed by your work because you're passionate about it So part of what I'm wondering is as you get further into this workforce development project. It's gonna. Be a longer term ongoing project where you probably are going to have a team. Um I mean I know it's I I if I'm under if I remember correctly, it's something where you've been talking with others about this for all these years and as that.

29:45.98

Julianna

Um, yes, yes, yes yes, true.

29:56.84

kitedart

Takes off 1 You're going to have that team over there and it might also um, limit how much business you're doing at Filanova. It might even provide you that space of Um. Maybe some balance between having the team and then also doing that strategic work that you love at filanova.

30:20.87

Julianna

Yeah I think that's true. Absolutely I think that um again, it's sort of this both and instead of 1 or the other and that is exciting for me that I can do both I can create both filanova can be both.

30:28.60

kitedart

Um, yeah.

30:40.55

Julianna

Things. Um, and yeah, yeah, and I think you're right you you said you know it I am passionate about what I do and I I am very um, fulfilled by my work I'm inspired by my work and um. So I do think I fall into that trap of how many hours I should work if I'm if I'm burnt out that's 1 thing but if I'm excited inspired and um, invigorated then I'm going to keep going.

31:09.47

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, kind of back to defining what success means and knowing what on the 1 hand you still need to take care of yourself. But on the other hand um I heard you say you know success is about the impact that you're having and. Ah, contribution that you're being and so when that's feeding you cool I'm gonna keep going and also just making sure there are those boundaries and places where you can step back and not get burnt out because I know you've you've been there before as well.

31:43.76

Julianna

Um, yes, um.

31:45.61

kitedart

Um, I wonder if um I just thought of this like I wonder if. Just thinking creatively again I know you're all about innovation and so I wonder how you might be able to build in some ways of scaling that. Are in alignment with collaboration without maybe taking on employees and giving folks that opportunity to to contribute how they do and I just kind of thought about um 1 thing I thought about I don't know what. Brought this up for me but I was thinking about. We did the co-starters training right? at at the commons like right before shutdown having literally as shutdown was happening right for covid and you know I believe I could be wrong. But I believe sometimes that program has had graduates.

32:32.26

Julianna

This. Yes.

32:49.91

kitedart

That program come back and lead it and I could be wrong about that. But I think that's true and I'm even wondering right? as you I know you've been rolling out your incubator and you know how can you.

32:59.84

Julianna

Is it.

33:05.16

kitedart

Give opportunities for folks like kind of that train. The trainer thing of like people who've done that work and who've taken those steps and implemented the things that you've taught how might they be able to come back and serve and you know teach or be mentors or.

33:11.88

Julianna

Um, will.

33:22.67

Julianna

Yeah, that's a that's a yeah, that's a great idea I love that idea you know Mentorship is also 1 of my big commitments. Um, so I think um I i.

33:24.78

kitedart

Something I don't know.

33:39.53

Julianna

We're just about to kick off a new cohort for the nonprofit incubator and I think that that's a great thing to think about as we go through who can I bring back for each cohort to um, act as a mentor because I think Mentorship is so so important. Um, yeah, that that's a great idea I love it. Thank you for sharing that? Yeah yeah.

34:00.57

kitedart

Yeah, kind of for an I I don't know just popped in my head. Yeah I know with the mentorship that that's big and I know you do that for other organizations and so you know it might be an interesting and I know again, it's not that same as that ongoing team but it can you know it's. Still that team where it's not I know I know we team with our clients but the way we team with our clients is not the way we team with our internal teams. Yeah, and I know that internal piece is is super cool and even thinking right back to some of the ways kite and dart has done that right that you've been a part of I've been a part of.

34:25.23

Julianna

Internal. Yeah.

34:38.62

kitedart

You know there's a lot of really creative ways to bring folks in in in some of those capacities that may not be a full time job with some regular paycheck but are totally inspiring and because there's a lot of entrepreneurs who. Miss that collaboration in Teamwork I think so yeah, um, anything else about I don't know just thinking about scaling anything else that that you want to chew on or play around with.

34:58.20

Julianna

Um, yeah I think that's true.

35:16.30

Julianna

Um I think I'm I'm intrigued by this idea of really defining what scaling is and it's also a what you should do right? So you reach capacity. Um as a solopreneur right? There's only so much we can do. We're 1 person and I have an amazing person on my team who brings skills and expertise that I don't have um, she's amazing I couldn't but yeah I can't say enough Lauren conley. Thank you so much. Um, and.

35:46.98

kitedart

Yeah, yeah, she is.

35:53.30

Julianna

Um, I kind of lost my train of thought there. But um I think that looking at together as a team. Okay, what do we want to accomplish and what's the next step together as a team and um, yeah. It's ah it's an interesting idea to explore for sure. Um, to oh I know I was talking about sort of these assumptions which okay so now we have to add people so we can take on more clients and we just keep building and building and building. But.

36:19.12

kitedart

Um, yeah, okay.

36:26.17

Julianna

I'm not sure the quality stays the same I'm not sure I don't know I don't know the answer because I've never been I've only been where I am um so I'm also very um, ah, kind of keyed into that that. Um. Maybe it's It's a different model and I don't know what the model is but it doesn't have to be bigger better more all the time. It could be something else that ends up being big better more I don't know.

36:48.31

kitedart

Um, yeah. Um, yeah.

36:59.51

kitedart

Yeah, well and the thing I I mean the thing that I really appreciate about what you've already done Julianna is you know again, this is from the outside you know, but it feels like you've been very intentional in your in your partnership it or in your you know. In when you brought lauren on and how you did that and making sure it worked for her and that she got to do what she was great at and what she loved to do and how it complemented you and what you needed and um I think that that intentionality goes so far in business and it's not just like. I'm going to create a job description and you have to be good at these 20 things and I'm going to hire whoever gets the closest to those 20 things and make them still do those things. They're not great at or ah, you know that that. You're really defining how that success of bringing others on is tied to what they're great at and and what they care about and and what they want which is just not.

38:10.30

Julianna

Yeah, well and I appreciate that because that is what I've learned directly from Kitenter I mean that is your principle and when applied I mean it just is so it makes everything easier. It makes.

38:11.50

kitedart

But it's typical. So I think that.

38:27.74

Julianna

Right? I mean things just are in alignment when you have the right people doing what they love to do and how many jobs have we both had in the past where we were not in roles that we were that that really highlighted our skills. to to um their full potential I mean I've had many some of it was good right? But um, being you know, sort of forced to do or taking on tasks that we do because we should instead of because.

38:52.70

kitedart

2 yeah, but.

39:05.89

Julianna

We love it and we're really good at it and we get great results.

39:08.92

kitedart

Yeah, and I think we just become resigned right? I mean I know when I started my business right? I mean this was a huge learning for me with when I came to Kitentar as a client as well was I was doing all these things that I was like I have to do this I should do this I'm supposed to do this.

39:12.11

Julianna

Um, yeah.

39:24.96

kitedart

Good business owners do that like yes karen you have to go be on social media even they really don't like it you know and and and back then right Nate's like what if you just let that go you know and and ah. It took me a while but I because I think we get so resigned and you know we're so conditioned that that has to be the way it is and it's it's really liberating in entrepreneurship to take a step back and let go of that.

39:51.90

Julianna

It is this this reminds me of um, you know you asked what some of the challenges were and and having to do with that equity lens I I feel really conflicted about social media particularly Facebook um though. The more I hear the more I do not want to associate my business with Facebook um, but I feel resigned that there that is how else do we get out there right and I am determined I'm going to find an answer to that because. It is not in alignment. Um, and you know integrity is big and and so that is another challenge for me that I'm thinking about how do we bring? How do we get? the. The exposure we need as entrepreneurs and business owners without compromising some values that are they're a big deal. It's a big deal and it's just getting to be more of a big deal to me.

40:56.60

kitedart

Yeah, no I got that? um you know I think I was I was actually thinking about this a little bit because even me doing this podcast is is me embracing. What I love and what I'm really great at and I love having deep conversations with people I Love connecting 1 on 1 like yeah I love teaching courses and groups and that kind of thing but my favorite is like 1 on 1 are small groups and going deep and talking about cool things and you know and.

41:26.69

Julianna

Yeah.

41:30.45

kitedart

I'm not gonna be on Facebook I mean I get I get that kit and dart is on Facebook and we have we grapple with that too. But I just am like a big. No personally um I'm I'm embracing linkedin a little bit you know, but like I I want to. I want to connect with people in a way that really that really highlights what I care about and what I'm great at and so I was even thinking about this for you because I know how big collaboration is and so I just am am really thinking about. And I know it doesn't answer the social media thing but I just like how can you leverage more collaborations. How can you? um, build more of those power partners because I think you've had success with that in the past and I know you also just know a lot of people. You've got a great reputation. Your work is phenomenal. Those who know you and have worked with you adore you right? and they're they're like yes, but like you know in that we do want to expand our reach to some extent right again to what point do we have to you know to what extent is you know is do we have to go bigger is it is it.

42:40.56

Julianna

Yeah.

42:42.69

kitedart

Always about quantity right? But I don't know just thinking about like what are different ways that you can can build those partnerships and and maybe there are some Maybe there are some more strategic partnerships. That you could be pursuing.

43:00.24

Julianna

I Think that that's true and that's part of why I joined the regenerative Recovery coalition. It is a consortium of like minded folks from all different industries all different sectors who all care about the same thing which is. Um, a um regenerative ah healthy economy for Colorado Um, and so I think that that's absolutely Correct. It is engaging with folks who um. Share my share. My values have goals. You know I'm very action focused and so how can I participate and apply my skills in whatever way, you know support. Whatever you know I'm interested in doing um so I I do think that That's exactly you're right on point with that. Um, and I think there's other there are other ways than than social media for sure. I mean you know I know this about you that you would much prefer a phone call to an email. Um and we don't We don't pick up the phone Anymore. We We don't do it my phone never rings it unless it's my children which it just did. Um so I know when it rings it's you know it's them but a conversation is just so much more enriching than some text on a screen right? I Mean. At least to me it is um I know to others. It might not be but but that's great advice. Yeah.

44:35.15

kitedart

Um, yeah, yeah, well I think it really gets down to that authenticity right? like social Media. You know we can we get to filter what we want people to know and see and. Um, it's it's just not boy I mean you know we both have teenage kids and and I think that. I don't know about yours. But I think that sometimes mine think that those relationships are way more real or deeper than they really are you know? and and when we talk when we connect you know I think that the connection is deeper because it it is this back and forth thing and anyway yeah I just I I and I do know that you're you know that you do have a lot of those collaborations and I just I don't know I I don't have a hard time whatsoever telling most folks to just be like ditch the Facebook at least you know and. You know if there is a ah social media platform that you don't feel as strongly. Ethically you know.

45:49.20

Julianna

Um, well. And yeah I think that um I agree that Linkedin is much more organic feeling to me much more focused on business. Um, but yeah I mean it's a dilemma right? I mean that's why it's called social dilemma if you haven't seen it It's great documentary watch it. Um, it is a dilemma. Um.

46:22.12

kitedart

Yeah.

46:25.59

Julianna

And I do you know I definitely um, am listening more to my intuition when it comes to how I want to connect and scale and you know I I feel. Fortunate to have found projects and collaborators I did not find any of those on Facebook I don't you know now that I'm saying this? um I don't know that I've met any of my. Current clients on Facebook they were all from in-person events that I've facilitated or spoken at or something. So maybe it's just an illusion to me that I need to continue to but that's what we're told right.

47:11.90

kitedart

Yeah, totally totally? Yeah, yeah, yeah, not such a fan. Not at all I Yeah um and and again you know I I don't know.

47:14.46

Julianna

Got to be on social. You got to be on the socials. But but yeah.

47:29.47

kitedart

It's it's so easy to be resigned to that's what we have to do so um I'll I'll look for. Yeah yeah, I'll look forward to seeing what you decide because I don't do I don't do Facebook at all like I said I I I do a little on linkedin but I do very little I just do very little period I just connect with people in person and.

47:33.26

Julianna

I'm going to work on that. Yeah.

47:44.11

Julianna

Yeah.

47:49.39

kitedart

Well or virtually whatever but you know, um, now with a podcast which is super fun because I get to have these long conversations. So but um, okay so here's what I would love to do? Thank you so much for being with me today I have a couple things I'd love to do just as a quick wrap up thing.

47:54.28

Julianna

Yeah, love it I Love it.

48:04.98

Julianna

Yes, great.

48:07.40

kitedart

Um, ah 1 is you know that kite and dart. We say that we're the home of entrepreneurial activism so I'd love to hear what does entrepreneurial activism mean to you.

48:15.68

Julianna

Ah, yeah I love it so much. Um, to me. It is about challenging the status quo and using our unique skills and talents that we apply in our businesses to um. Truly make a contribution to changing the systems to um, fighting oppression and white supremacy and ah ageism ableism sex. All of it. Um, you know it's not racism is the top. But. And all the intersection intersectionality that that occurs I mean so I feel it gives me a platform to create more depth in my business. It's not just about serving an industry or a client. It's about. Truly I want to leave this world a better place and um, I'm super grateful for Kitentart for creating this context. Um for us to to do this.

49:23.21

kitedart

Awesome! Thank you.? It's a yeah I This is my revolution. This is what I want to take on as as like and I I Just think that as entrepreneurs we have such a unique opportunity to do it because we can. Push up but you know those places where we tend to be resigned and feel like this has to be the way it is. We don't have to do that We can break the rules and we can change that. So Um I Love to be on this journey with you. Thank you for being here. Actually there's 1 more thing.

49:47.20

Julianna

Yeah I love it.

49:54.30

Julianna

Yes.

49:56.50

kitedart

I Would love for you to just if you want to share your um website or anywhere people can learn more about you. Um, because if we've got nonprofit folks listening out there. This is your person. So.

50:01.51

Julianna

Yes.

50:08.53

Julianna

Yeah, yes, thank you? Um, so you can find my website at w ww ww dot filanova that's p h I l l I n n o v a dot com. Um I am on linkedin just. Juliana nelson I think Julianna nelson social impact philannova is also on um on linkedin I am on Facebook and Instagram though I'm not super active and as you heard probably won't be um, um, my website is the is the best place to. To find information ways to get in Touch. You can sign up for the newsletter um opportunities for folks to get engaged in different ways. So definitely the website's the best place to go.

50:57.35

kitedart

Perfect I encourage any of you if you're interested to reach out to Juliana learn more check out what she's doing Juliana Thank you for being the inaugural guest on now and center. It was such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you. Thank you? Thank you.

51:08.37

Julianna

Um.

51:15.16

kitedart

And I look forward to just any future collaborations that we've got going on.

51:18.57

Julianna

I Can't wait. Thank you so much. This was great. It's always just wonderful to engage with you. So thank you so much appreciate it.

51:25.39

kitedart

Um, yeah, you're welcome.